Agreed...The point of trading in July is to take advantage of someone or to dump a salary. The offseason has many more options with a much larger audience.
Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
Agreed...The point of trading in July is to take advantage of someone or to dump a salary. The offseason has many more options with a much larger audience.
WaitingFor2017
Well-known member
Cleveland needs a catcher. I hear AJP is pretty good...
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
If we did it quickly he could snag a speaking gig at the convention.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
People tend to forget that pitching is like real estate: location, location, location. I haven't seen much of him this season, but if he can saw guys off inside on the fists, a tick or two of velocity doesn't matter. What hurts him is when he gets too much plate. He's a flyball pitcher and that is going to mean some HRs because he's around the plate as much as he is. He's not the first effective pitcher to have that shortcoming. I think the difference between this year and last year is that he's being more aggressive inside.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
it's ridiculously easy to sit on a computer and say "we should've done this!" it's exponentially more difficult when you're actually in the position and having to weigh the options in real time, and not in hindsight or not when it's your actual job. what you say on a message board means nothing; what they do in real life means everything.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I don't see trading Viz when he's been hurt and bad. Need to trade him at a higher value.
If we knew Simmons, Winkler, and Paco were coming back at their best...maybe. But we do not.
I don't think we goofed not trading Viz earlier. He was doing great and young. You get more right at the deadline.
We goofed with Grilli b/c he was 40 and playing over his head.
That said, you never know what the offers were. We don't know if they had 3 good offers on the table for Grilli. Maybe the other teams were waiting for the deadline too so they knew the entire market or could minimize costs.
If we knew Simmons, Winkler, and Paco were coming back at their best...maybe. But we do not.
I don't think we goofed not trading Viz earlier. He was doing great and young. You get more right at the deadline.
We goofed with Grilli b/c he was 40 and playing over his head.
That said, you never know what the offers were. We don't know if they had 3 good offers on the table for Grilli. Maybe the other teams were waiting for the deadline too so they knew the entire market or could minimize costs.
I'm not really sure what the point of this back and forth is. Do you know that they didn't receive any reasonable offers? You're accusing me of assuming things when you are doing the exact same thing.
Viz at his best looked like the best reliever on the market outside of the Yankees relievers. And you think the most likely scenario is that we had no decent offers for him?
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I think the most likely scenario is the FO isn't making decisions and declarations on a message board that don't matter and that their thought process is (thankfully) much more complex than "take the first decent offer!" never mind that "decent" is a subjective term, it's possible teams were low-balling for a variety of reasons.
if he doesn't get hurt, he likely fetches more closer to the deadline than he does in May. it's just comical to make definitive statements about this sort of thing. he injured his oblique. it's not like his arm exploded and everyone but the FO could just see it coming. "just take the first decent offer!" is terrible and overly-simplistic advice.
It's a little alarming the amount of things you're coming up with that I haven't even coming close to saying. Enjoy.
Waiting for the market to develop for one. Several teams are still trying to decide if they are going to be buyers or sellers this year. And who's to say they didn't have a blockbuster trade in the works that they had been working on for several days/weeks? Trades of high profile players rarely come together in a day.
Blaming the front office for this or last year's situation with Grilli is stupid. Freak accidents happen.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I think veteran presence can be overrated, but Grilli added a really positive vibe to the squad last year. Having a guy like that on a rebuilding/developing team can really help.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Actually, it is fact the Braves had a trade lined up for a guy who then got injured and the prospect they were going to get suddenly jumped up the prospect rankings and was then considered untouchable. It was said by hart or Coppy, I can't remember which. Folks connected the dots and concluded the trade he was talking about likely included Jim Johnson and Grilli to the Yanks for Severino. I'm not going to take the time to go back and search for the quote, but maybe someone else will.
I'm sorry if you weren't following the trade news closely enough to know that, but many posters here were. And those posters do know a lot more than you seem to give them credit for. They also apparently know a lot more than you do, despite your enthusiasm for telling people how little they know...it's a bit ironic actually.
So yes, the Braves waited too long to trade Grilli. Whether or not they are at fault for doing so is certainly up for debate, but they clearly didn't get the top prospect for him that they were apparently set to get before he got hurt.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
No one has ever said that Grilli's injury didn't hurt the team in the trade department. There was no shot that Grilli was going to come back from this injury and build the value he had pre injury. But to claim the Braves waited to long is crazy unless you know the facts.
When was deal proposed, who delayed the saying yes, The Stankees could have been shopping other closers at that point as well. Everyone on this board wishes that Grilli could have stayed healthy to be traded.. only the crazies are blaming the FO for waiting too long.
When was deal proposed, who delayed the saying yes, The Stankees could have been shopping other closers at that point as well. Everyone on this board wishes that Grilli could have stayed healthy to be traded.. only the crazies are blaming the FO for waiting too long.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Where did I talk about Grilli?
Grilli and Viz are not similar.
Nothing you said disputes anything I've said - solid job.
And saying they "waited too long" is certainly placing blame. having a trade lined up wouldn't dispute anything I said (especially when we've talking about Viz this whole time).
you're excellent at making long posts that say nothing relevant or important.
Which is absolutely fine. It really is a question of how much you want to "win now" for those teams, and the questions many people raise are completely justifiable. They're just tougher to defend if/when those GMs have to defend the fact that they came up short when they had a chance to land guys like Julio if they don't win when they have the chance. Dombrowski is a master of this, which is why the rumblings about a Moncada or Benintendi for Julio deal won't die until after August 1st.
He's played this game many times before, and has played it to perfection. A perfect example is when he traded for Miggy. He kept hemming and hawing with the Marlins, continuing to substitute other names instead of Miller and/or Maybin right up until the end - knowing all along that he'd give them up when the time came. I'm not saying he'll do it in this case, but he's now worked this situation perfectly again. He got one of the most sought after arms in a one-for-one deal even though Pomeranz very well may have been worth more than he gave up for him. Coppy's played this perfectly as well, maintaining that Julio's "untouchable" unless someone drastically overpays.
My guess is that if Teheran's still healthy in two weeks and Dombrowski calls and says "OK, I give in, let's do Benintendi or Moncada for Teheran straight-up", Coppy won't sleep that night.
This is a situation where Dombrowski's dealing from a position of strength AND isn't trading for short-term fixes. Adding Julio and Pomeranz would likely set their rotation up for the forseeable future. With Ortiz' contract coming off the books this winter, they could very easily go out and get Cespedes to play LF if they traded Benintendi. They could then make Moncada a super-sub the way the Cubs have Baez - he could play 2B when Pedroia needs a day off, play LF when Cespedes needs a day off, and even DH him. Or they could make him a full-time LF and sign Edwin Encarnacion to replace Ortiz.
The thing that everyone who's in such a hurry to ship Julio off misunderstands is that the Braves can't lose if they keep him. Just because he isn't traded in the next two weeks doesn't mean he'll NEVER be traded - but keeping him means they've got a LEGITIMATE shot to win once every five days while he's still here. There's not another Pitcher in the system that anyone can say that about right now. You simply can't afford to "miss" if you trade him - if you don't get a Moncada/Bregman/Benintendi in return, you HAVE to keep him.
If no one's willing to pony up and pay that, many of us will be just as happy he's still a Brave - maybe even happier.
If they had that trade lined up and agreed to on the Yankees front, the trade would have been made. Trade negotiatons are just that. Negotiations. They generally take some time. May be they agreed to everything and were ironing out last minute details when the injury happened. Who knows. Saying the "waited too long" is making a pretty big assumption based off little to no solid evidence.
dak
Well-known member
In the Coppy chat Saturday, he listed Julio and Freddie as untouchable. It seemed definitive. I couldn't help but notice that his comments to McAlpin tonight seem less definitive. It's probably nothing, but this makes it sound like they want that door to stay opened a crack until the deadline strikes.
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