VP debate

weso1

weso1

<B>Clique Leader</B>
Pence winning the debate so far, imo. Not surprising. Will have no effect on the election though.
 
Pence has that grin while lying thing down pat.

edit: What a great face his has. He looks like a Boy Scout leader or a living G.I. Joe doll.

He can also smile with his eyes while frowning with his mouth.
 
Think Pence won the debate, but don't see any big effect from it. He's really almost the exact opposite of Trump in terms of demeanor and how he can communicate without shouting short, shallow slogans. I know Kaine was trying to fire up the Clinton base, but early on, he came off as desperate.
 
Kaine's first third was legit awful. After that, he clearly won on substance and was sharp and effective. Pence won on style, and that's how these things are judged. He did a miserable job of defending Donald Trump but an effective job of advertising Mike Pence. Draw your own conclusions from that.
 
Julio3000 said:
Kaine's first third was legit awful. After that, he clearly won on substance and was sharp and effective. Pence won on style, and that's how these things are judged. He did a miserable job of defending Donald Trump but an effective job of advertising Mike Pence. Draw your own conclusions from that.
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Yeah, you would have to think anyone who agrees to run with Trump has bigger ambitions.
 
Pence is a really cool and composed guy. One of those guys who if he were a serial killer could actually convince his victim that he should allow himself to be killed. Has a very effective communication style. I disagree with most of what comes out of his mouth, but his cool demeanor is certainly a plus for him.
 
I enjoyed the debate. It was nice to actually hear civil political discourse - it's been a while. That being said, I thought the moderator was atrocious and annoying. Lester Holt did a much better job controlling two exceedingly more difficult personalities.

Listened a bit to New England Public Radio this AM and was surprised to hear the broadcasters going off on Kaine, saying that he, 'was playing a role of a candidate he isn't' ... certainly, his interruptions were grating, but his performance was far from that of an attack dog.

Pence impressed me. He and whoever prepped him should be on a plane right now to coach Trump for the remainder of the week. If Trump had delivered a debate performance even half as reserved and thoughtful as Pence did last night it wouldn't surprise me if he, not Hillary, was the one looking down with 6 points of padding.

I read somewhere (likely not a verifiable source) that Nigel Farage had flown in to work with Donald this week. Amusing if true.
 
not sure what anyone else saw but I saw Kaine expose the divide between Trump and Pence.

Pense never once used a real fact to defend the head of the ticket and often openly defied the head of the ticket
Isn't that what was once called "going rogue" ?

And of course Kaine pulled out that "Mexican Thing "
 
Pence just denied and ignored everything brought up that Trump has said. You can't deny things that are easily verifiable. Well, when you have Trump's base support you can, but others see it differently.
 
I actually thought Pence did an admirable job defending Trump considering the circumstances. When Kaine would let him talk he attempted to at least explain where Trump was coming from on certain issues. But he didn't try too hard to push any of it across.

For example, he never 'denied' that Trump lodged an attack against Mexican immigrants, but he did seek to clarify what Trump meant (similarly with the Crimean question and a few other points). Whether or not there is any truthful basis in these reinterpretations is up for the voter to decide, but Pence - at times - decently portrayed Trump as either misunderstood or simply just not a polished pol. He did make sure to contrast that message with Clinton/Kaine, commenting numerous times that Kaine was working with prepared remarks/quips and also furtively making a career politician jab against Kaine.

I'm pretty sure that it was Kellyanne Conway who used the word "gaffe" when characterizing Donald Trump's slips of tongue in the post-debate coverage on NBC. I'm not so sure that's how I would couch things if I was consulting for Trump, but obviously they have raw data which supports the idea that some key segments of the voting populace are willing to look beyond Trump's past comments with a 'surely he can't mean that' attitude.
 
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Hawk said:
I actually thought Pence did an admirable job defending Trump considering the circumstances. When Kaine would let him talk he attempted to at least explain where Trump was coming from on certain issues. But he didn't try too hard to push any of it across.

For example, he never 'denied' that Trump lodged an attack against Mexican immigrants, but he did seek to clarify what Trump meant (similarly with the Crimean question and a few other points). Whether or not there is any truthful basis in these reinterpretations is up for the voter to decide, but Pence - at times - decently portrayed Trump as either misunderstood or simply just not a polished pol. He did make sure to contrast that message with Clinton/Kaine, commenting numerous times that Kaine was working with prepared remarks/quips and also furtively making a career politician jab against Kaine.

I'm pretty sure that it was Kellyanne Conway who used the word "gaffe" when characterizing Donald Trump's slips of tongue in the post-debate coverage on NBC. I'm not so sure that's how I would couch things if I was consulting for Trump, but obviously they have raw data which supports the idea that some key segments of the voting populace are willing to look beyond Trump's past comments with a 'surely he can't mean that' attitude.
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from Amanda Terkel
_________

Pence repeatedly tried to skirt around statements Trump actually said — or simply shook his head and ignored the question.

“I’m happy to defend [Trump],” Pence said.

But Pence rarely actually defended Trump. Instead, he dodged or outright denied his running mate’s statements. Some examples:
RUSSIA

When Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Hillary Clinton’s running mate, accused Trump of praising Russian president Vladimir Putin as a “great leader,” Pence denied it and called Putin a “small and bullying leader.” But Trump has repeatedly praised Putin.

When Kaine said that Trump recently claimed Putin was not going into Ukraine, Pence denied it. But Trump did say, “He’s not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He’s not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want.” Putin took the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

Pence himself also recently said, “I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country.”
NUCLEAR WEAPONS

When Kaine challenged Pence to defend Trump’s comment that more nations should get nuclear weapons, Pence said “he never said that.” But Trump did.
TAXES

When Kaine pointed out that Trump had once promised to release his tax returns, Pence replied, “He said he will do it.” Trump has repeatedly said he can’t release his returns because he is being audited by the IRS. (The IRS has said nothing prevents him from releasing them.) There is absolutely no evidence that Trump will actually release his returns. His son, Donald Trump Jr., has admitted that there’s a more political reason the campaign is not releasing the returns: It would be a distraction and create too many “questions.”
IMMIGRATION

Kaine said Trump wants to have a “deportation force”: “They want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people.” Pence called Kaine’s statement “nonsense.” Last year, Trump himself used the term “deportation force” in an interview with MSNBC’s “Morning Joe”: “You’re going to have a deportation force, and you’re going to do it humanely. And you’re going to bring the country – and frankly, the people, because you have some excellent wonderful people, some fantastic people that have been here for a long period of time.”
MEXICANS

Pence tried to defend Trump’s comments about Mexicans after Kaine pointed out that the GOP presidential candidate has called immigrants from the country “rapists.”

“He also said, ‘many of them are good people,’” Pence replied.

Trump’s actual quote last year was: “When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.”
ABORTION

When Kaine said that Trump had said women should be punished for abortion, Pence said, “Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy.” But Trump did say that women who have abortions should be punished
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57Brave said:
PENCE: Senator, you’ve whipped out that Mexican thing again. He — look…

So what made the Pence comment hit a nerve? The unzipped vulgarity had plenty to do with it. As did the maligning of 33.7 million Mexican-Americans, two-thirds of whom were born here.

http://billmoyers.com/story/two-white-guys-mexican-thing-debate/#.V_VEjFTi7Dc.twitter

......

Don't know what exactly it was that Pence won ---
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Kaine accomplished his goal of making Pence attempt to defend trump. In the process Pence ignored some indefensible things and denied other things that are plainly true. I kind of wish we got to hear more about Pence's nutjob policies, but making him find a way to defend trump is more effective.
 
Looking long game this is the last we see of Kaine or Pence until one is inaugurated.

Kaine gave HRC the debate/ad line " that even Trumps VP can't support him. "
Let's not for a second think we won't hear that tact in one of the next two debates.

Kaine performed his job to a tee
Pence looked out for Pence.

Pence needed to do what Biden did last cycle. Instead, Pence let his ambition get the better of him

Funny thing is, in 2020 Pence would have to stand next to Huckabee and Santorum.
What's the difference ?
 
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