What Concerns you most about 2014?

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zitothebrave said:
Every stat has issues. They tell a tale to a point, but there's noise involved in valuing any statistic. OBP for example is really simple, but why value it over slugging or average and you're getting into noise.

I go with the best advanced stats that are out there because it's the best there is. It's like going with the best phone, sure in a few months it will be outdated and something new will be out, but that's no reason to stick with a telegraph.
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Except that OBP, AVG, SLG, etc are based on actual hard counting stats. There is no debating what the play on record is. A hit is a hit and it is recorded as so.

Defensive stats are (at least in part) based on human perception of a ball in play. While defensive stats can give you a decent gauge on the overall ability of a player, there is currently no effective way of giving a true value of a players overall defensive ability.
 
ChapelHillMatt said:
I use stats, I just don't use the one's you want me to use.
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That's fine. But most of the baseball world has moved on. And you can see that with who GMs sign and for how much money. Teams just don't pay for traditional stats anymore.

People may not like WAR and thinks it's not accurate due to the defensive component. But it's easy to see that GMS and baseball front offices do believe in that and stats like it.
 
Dalyn said:
Come on, thethe...

You know it is ridiculous that he will likely (if he stays healthy) be our #5. That's just embarrassing. It is going to be like having 2006 Jorge Sosa back on the team.
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I was told on the JT extension thread that Julio Teheran is our Jorge Sosa, and we can't have TWO Sosas. Even one blows my mind...
 
Carp said:
Except that OBP, AVG, SLG, etc are based on actual hard counting stats. There is no debating what the play on record is. A hit is a hit and it is recorded as so.

Defensive stats are (at least in part) based on human perception of a ball in play. While defensive stats can give you a decent gauge on the overall ability of a player, there is currently no effective way of giving a true value of a players overall defensive ability.
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A hit isn't always a hit. It could be an error, a walk is based off an umpires judgement, even ignoring those factors which I'm just throwing out there to be difficult, your valuation of them is totally arbitrary. If you value OBP more than slugging or average there's noise (as thethe puts it)

Defensive stats are more complex than those stats for sure. And there is noise with it (as there is with any play assigning value or comparing to another player) and they're not perfect, but they're way better than any other way of measuring defense unless you have access to all the games and watch them all. Even then there's still issues but I digress.
 
zitothebrave said:
What are you talking about? I'm seriously getting lost by this either random or double talk.

You brought BJ into this conversation. I didn't bring him in here. I never compared BJ to Span, I said Span is above average offensively. His career stats and just about any sample you pull aside from one proves that. You brought in BJ I had no intention fo comparing the 2.

Literally all I said about Span was he's above average.

2 year sample, 101
3 year sample, 99
4 year sample, 95
5 year sample, 101
Career 103

Any multi-year sample ASIDE FROM ONE he's above average or right around average (99 is right there that I'd call anyone playing 2B, SS, C, or CF with a 99 above average even though it's technically not)

So here's an idea, stop bringing up Bossman, I didn't bring him into the conversation, you did. He had no point being brought up and I regret not just ignoring the asininity because it was a waste of time in all reality but I was hoping by addressing it you'd see the truth, obviously that didn't happen.

Facts, Span is above average or really damn close to it in just about any sample you can. I said he's above average. If you split hairs and point to every sample then yeah you can come to the conclusion that he's not above average, you purposely picked a sample that made Span look his worst (still doesn't make him look that bad) and you keep harping on it. I hope you stop arguing because you're really not making any sense
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Is B.J. Upton above-average? Yes or no>? Answer the question.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
Is B.J. Upton above-average? Yes or no>? Answer the question.
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Ugh I can't believe I'm falling for this stupidity but fine if it makes you happy

On his career yes.

Same sample though

2 year - 86
3 year - 96
4 year - 99
5 year - 96

SO can you please stop this asinine argument?
 
zitothebrave said:
Ugh I can't believe I'm falling for this stupidity but fine if it makes you happy

On his career yes.

Same sample though

2 year - 86
3 year - 96
4 year - 99
5 year - 96

SO can you please stop this asinine argument?
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Thank you. You finally made my point for me. That the Nationals don't have an advantage over the Braves in CF and that Denard Span and B.J. Upton are both the exact same hitter. My argument was never asinine. I used Span's last 4 consecutive seasons for a reference point and you jumped all over me for doing that while turning around and using B.J.'s last 5 consecutive seasons as a reference point. That was the part that ticked me off. That you did the same thing I did but want to call me out on it and say I should only be using 2 year sample sizes. Like 2 year sample sizes are end all be all of sample sizes.
 
I never said they had an advantage. EVER. I said

"Nats lineup is very strong with Harper, Werth, Zimmerman, Desmond, Rendon, Ramos, LaRoche, and Span are all above average hitters or better. LaRoche is the only one likely at his position who's below average. "

You said

"Did you just say Denard Span is an above average hitter?"

Somehow this turned into some warped argument wher eyou were trying to prove something that wasn't even the discussion. Congrats you win at arguing about things that weren't the original topic. HUZZAH
 
zitothebrave said:
I never said they had an advantage. EVER. I said

"Nats lineup is very strong with Harper, Werth, Zimmerman, Desmond, Rendon, Ramos, LaRoche, and Span are all above average hitters or better. LaRoche is the only one likely at his position who's below average. "

You said

"Did you just say Denard Span is an above average hitter?"

Somehow this turned into some warped argument wher eyou were trying to prove something that wasn't even the discussion. Congrats you win at arguing about things that weren't the original topic. HUZZAH
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You kept trying to claim that Denard Span is an above average hitter and I was trying to say that he wasn't by using B.J. as Span's comparison because they are the exact same hitter. But oh well. It's no big deal. If you wanna think Span is above average then more power to you.
 
AUTiger7222 said:
You kept trying to claim that Denard Span is an above average hitter and I was trying to say that he wasn't by using B.J. as Span's comparison because they are the exact same hitter. But oh well. It's no big deal. If you wanna think Span is above average then more power to you.
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So very very obtuse.
 
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