Will the real Jason Heyward please stand up?

sturg33 said:
You oringinally asked if Heyward is a better player than Harper. I think he is.

You have now changed the question to which hitter is better. And Harper will likely be better, provided he can avoid running into walls. It is really cool though when his helmet always flies off his head.
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For some reason, that makes me want to run into a wall. Just seems like a chuckleheaded thing. Thing I hate is that I've seen players actually flick the helmet (or cap) on purpose in a showmanship kind of thing. I don't think Harper is doing that, so I'll give him a bit of a pass (at least on this).
 
Well, Brycey better stop thinking he's already the man. He definitely does, but his fundamentals are terrible. He does not seem very bright.

When your daddy showcases you like you're a child model, it has an effect.
 
50PoundHead said:
For some reason, that makes me want to run into a wall. Just seems like a chuckleheaded thing. Thing I hate is that I've seen players actually flick the helmet (or cap) on purpose in a showmanship kind of thing. I don't think Harper is doing that, so I'll give him a bit of a pass (at least on this).
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Looks to me like he tilts his head back to ensure his helmet flies off.

I remember once I was following the Nats on gameday. It said Harper tripled, and I said to my GF "I'll guarantee his helmet came off."

Wait for the highlight, watch and laugh as he rounds second, tilts his head up, and the helmet flies off.

What an awesome player!
 
sturg33 said:
You oringinally asked if Heyward is a better player than Harper. I think he is.

You have now changed the question to which hitter is better. And Harper will likely be better, provided he can avoid running into walls. It is really cool though when his helmet always flies off his head.
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Seems to me he wants to be too much like Pete Rose. He wasn't very bright either.
 
yeezus said:
Well, Brycey better stop thinking he's already the man. He definitely does, but his fundamentals are terrible. He does not seem very bright.
When your daddy showcases you like you're a child model, it has an effect.
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He does seem like a simpleton, not that I expect pro baseball players to have a Phi Beta Kappa key.

As much as Harper seems to be a hyped product, what he did was little different than what Landon Powell and Scott Boras tried to pull off. It really backfired for Powell, who looked like a man among boys in high school but could never put it together in the pros after a decent college career and being a first round draft pick.
 
thewupk said:
To this point it hasn't been. The future is the future and nobody knows exactly how each player with progress.
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The difference in OPS+ between Harper and Heyward is the same as the difference between Heyward and Nick Markakis and Will Veneable.
 
The OPS difference is also similar.

As is the wRC+

Do you like wOBA? The difference between Harper and Heyward is similar to the difference between Heyward and Chris Denorfia/Cody Ross/Ryan Ludwick.
 
gilesfan said:
The OPS difference is also similar.

As is the wRC+

Do you like wOBA? The difference between Harper and Heyward is similar to the difference between Heyward and Chris Denorfia/Cody Ross/Ryan Ludwick.
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And you don't think the difference in base running and defense isn't astronomical? Heyward is roughly 20% better than the league at hitting to this point. Harper is roughly 30%. If you'd rather have that extra 10% with meh defense and base running then go ahead. I'd rather have the complete player and so would the rest of baseball.
 
thewupk said:
And you don't think the difference in base running and defense isn't astronomical? Heyward is roughly 20% better than the league at hitting to this point. Harper is roughly 30%. If you'd rather have that extra 10% with meh defense and base running then go ahead. I'd rather have the complete player and so would the rest of baseball.
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So you think Heyward and Veneable are "pretty similar" hitters, right?

ON to the last part:

I think it's safe to assume you would get a chuckle out of non-Braves fans on that one.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2013-trade-value-the-top-10/
 
gilesfan said:
So you think Heyward and Veneable are "pretty similar" hitters, right?

ON to the last part:

I think it's safe to assume you would get a chuckle out of non-Braves fans on that one.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2013-trade-value-the-top-10/
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No they aren't similar And my original point is that the difference in their hitting so far doesn't make up for the massive gap in defense and base running. But you keep trying to change the argument. And that list is more about trade value which brings in contract length, how far they are from free agency, etc and not the actual value of that player. That's why you see guys like Profar in the top 30 or so which may he could get a lot back in trade value but is nowhere close to a top 30 player in the game.
 
thewupk said:
No they aren't similar And my original point is that the difference in their hitting so far doesn't make up for the massive gap in defense and base running. But you keep trying to change the argument. And that list is more about trade value which brings in contract length, how far they are from free agency, etc and not the actual value of that player. That's why you see guys like Profar in the top 30 or so which may he could get a lot back in trade value but is nowhere close to a top 30 player in the game.
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I thought that was pretty obvious. I guess Ian Desmond and Bryce Harper are better hitters than Jose Bautista...
 
So Harper and Heyward are pretty similar, but Heyward and Veneable are not pretty similar despite the difference in the players being similar?

Heywards BR above average is 0.9, 2.4, 7.9, -0.5, 1.7. Baserunning is essentially a non issue.

Harper is 10 runs or more better than Heyward offensively. Defense in right field doesn't make up for that.
 
sturg33 said:
I've never seen someone work so hard to discredit a Braves player in favor of a rival player.
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I really just want him to admit he's a Nats fan. I don't think he should be banned for it or anything, but just admit it already. Even if he doesn't, it's clear there's some allegiance there. It's pretty lame to masquerade as a Braves fan. Man up.
 
gilesfan said:
So Harper and Heyward are pretty similar, but Heyward and Veneable are not pretty similar despite the difference in the players being similar?

Heywards BR above average is 0.9, 2.4, 7.9, -0.5, 1.7. Baserunning is essentially a non issue.

Harper is 10 runs or more better than Heyward offensively. Defense in right field doesn't make up for that.
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I never said they are similar. I said it's close enough to where Heywards base running and defense more then make up for it. How is base running a non issue? Heyward is +12.3 in 558 games. Harper is +0.8 in 279 games. For 162 games that's +.46 for Harper and for Heyward that's 3.57. That's 3 runs per year right there. And yes Heywards defense (whether you believe in DRS and UZR or not) is quite a bit better than the 7 remaining runs.
 
thewupk said:
And you don't think the difference in base running and defense isn't astronomical? Heyward is roughly 20% better than the league at hitting to this point. Harper is roughly 30%. If you'd rather have that extra 10% with meh defense and base running then go ahead. I'd rather have the complete player and so would the rest of baseball.
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Speak for yourself on that. I'm feel confident that most GM's would prefer the superior hitter, especially when Harper isn't exactly a terrible defender out there.
 
Carp said:
Speak for yourself on that. I'm feel confident that most GM's would prefer the superior hitter, especially when Harper isn't exactly a terrible defender out there.
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This isn't the steroid era where defense is an afterthought. Run prevention is key for most teams. Harper isn't terrible but he's not a plus defender and he's average on the base paths. And Harper has shown to be pretty reckless and does stupid things on the field quiet often. Bottom like is Heyward brings more wins to his team more then Harper does.
 
thewupk said:
This isn't the steroid era where defense is an afterthought. Run prevention is key for most teams. Harper isn't terrible but he's not a plus defender and he's average on the base paths. And Harper has shown to be pretty reckless and does stupid things on the field quiet often. Bottom like is Heyward brings more wins to his team more then Harper does.
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As much as I can't stand the gnats and Harper, I don't think there's a gm out there who would pick Heyward over Harper at the moment.
 
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