Yahoo Sources: Braves Offer John Hart Full-Time GM Job

BJ#1FAN said:
Reports were Wren wanted to fire Fredi before he himself got canned.

They would've fired both guys and made TP interim or something.
Click to expand...

Yes. Those are the reports, and most likely true, but it had no bearing on him losing his job. And I disagree completely regarding firing both. That just isn't how it publicly works. Regardless who is really making the decisions, president/owners fire the GM, GM fires the manager.
 
If Fredi has to stay then we need the new GM to make things easier on Fredi. Fredi struggles with making the most of a bad situation. Like the lineup, who to bat where, there was no easy answer. But there was clearly one very wrong answer, and that was batting BJ and Andrelton in the top 2 spots. Out of every possible combination of who to bat in the top 2 spots that was picking the second worse possibly option. Only batting the pitcher in the top 2 would be worse. Also we have to have an elite bullpen. Fredi can barely manage a great pen, I don't want to see him attempt to manage with an average or worse pen.
 
zitothebrave said:
I think the blame on Wren for the farm is harsh. Since Wren took over we've had 6 drafts with a potential to have major league players.

2008, Spruill, Kimbrel, Clemens, Oberholtzer, and Hoover

2009, Minor and Hale

2010, Cunningham, Simmons, Gosselin, Terds, Schreve, and Gattis

2011, Ahmed, La Stella, and Schlosser. With guys coming along who can make their debut shortly, like Gilmartin, Kubitza, Graham,

2012, Wood and Simmons, and guys in A+ or higher, Sims, Brown, Elander, Peterson, Hyatt, Wilson, Tewell, Moses, and a few others.

2013, none in the majors yet, Hursh and Wren in AA.

If the "farm" was so strong before lets compare the 6 drafts prior to that.

2007, Heyward, Freeman, Hicks, Gearrin

2006, Rasmus, Locke, Medlen, Heath

2005, Devine, Escobar, Schafer, Chapman, Hanson, Flowers

2004, Parr, Sammons

2003, Atilano, Salty, Jojo Reyes, Harrison, Romak, White, Brandon Jones, Jonny Venters

2002, Francoeur, Meyer, McCann, Morton, James

Aside from the few stars (McCann, Heyward, Freeman) is there really a massive difference? Minor and Wood are every bit as good if not better than Medlen and Hanson who're the only pitchers of any worth taken in those 6 years. I could make a solid point that the draft was just as strong, and the draft and follows was an option back then.
Click to expand...

z, you have to take the analysis to the next level and you neglected to include Latin American players in the discussion.

People get all hung up on the draft producing stars and in the process neglect the solid regulars that come out of the draft. In the 2002 to 2007 list, let's look at some numbers:

Major League Plate Appearances through 9/24/14:

Francoeur: 4,987

Escobar: 4, 418

Saltalamacchia: 2,629

Schafer: 1,398

Flowers: 1,098

Then add the Latin Players:

Andrus: 3,953

Prado (2001 signee): 4,036

Now tell me, who on the list of post-2008 guys are going to net more than 1,000 big league PAs? Simmons has, Gattis and Peraza will, and La Stella is likely to as well. You don't have the 2014 guys listed, but if Davidson is as advertised, he probably has a decent big league career in terms of longevity as well. I've put the lowest PA bar up because I think of the guys currently in the big league, only Simmons will reach 2,000 PAs. Other guy to think about is Brandon Drury, who was part of the Upton deal.

As for the pitching, you have to look at the Latin signings as well. Teheran and Feliz. Remember that Kimbrel was both a 2007 and 2008 draftee. Hanson, Harrison, Medlen, and Venters have all been derailed by injuries. Devine was derailed as well, but I always thought he was an injury waiting to happen. Morton and Locke are in the Pirates' rotation (and have had uneven performance), but were key in obtaining McLouth. If I include Drury in the post-2007, I have to mention Randall Delgado here as part of the J. Upton deal.

I will admit that the pitching comparison is closer and it can be argued that Wren has actually done better than Schuerholz in this department. Wood looks to be very good. Minor has shown promise. Spruill was good enough to be included in the Upton deal and is in the bigs (perhaps to stay). Hursh will probably be in the bigs in the next couple of seasons. And Kimbrel is clearly a superstar closer.

The jury is out on the drafts since Wren took over, but outside of a pretty good assessment on pitching prospects, the fact that our system (especially in the upper reaches) is almost bereft of guys who project as regulars really doesn't speak well for either the draft strategy or the development process under his watch.
 
I think Wren's initial strategy was quite obvious, cause of trades and poor drafts and upcoming graduates the Braves upper minors were in a state of choas. Depth was a huge issue for us. Wren drafted low floor low ceiling guys because he wanted to replenish that depth and do it fast. And he did that with some improvements.

Wren you have to remember is fighting a battle that JS and co didn't have to do. MLB has tightened up loopholes the Braves were great at exploiting. International FAs and draft and follows are 2 things that have been changed to be more level. Basically now more than ever propsects you sign are a crapshoot because the tightened rules.

COunter point to your point, you talked about Latin players, you listed 4 impact Latin players from those 6 years. We have some intriguing signings under Wren. Camargo, Reyes and a few others I'm sure Rico would know more about than myself.
 
I get that Wren didn't inherit the greatest of situations, but his total lack of creativity in the draft and international market has left us with a Bottom 10 farm system. Things may still work out for guys like Victor Reyes and Johan Camargo, but they don't project (at least right now). Luis Barrios and Yeralf Torres may find the strike zone and turn out to be good pitchers. But Wren has had seven drafts and international signing periods and the system is in worse shape now than it was when he took over. He moved a lot of minor league depth in trades and those all grade out as good-to-very good trades, but there is neither quality depth or projection in the upper reaches of the farm system right now and Wren, Manno, and DeMacio can't run from that.

People can spin this any way they want, but it's a pretty straightforward situation.

Everybody misses on a Mike Trout. People can replay drafts in any sport five years later and play "What if?" But that escapes the point. It's the drafting of solid prospects who can grow into contributors that matters. Lightning will strike periodically and you find a high performer. That's all about the early rounds and Clark's last few drafts had a considerable number of whiffs. But it's consistency that matters most and the record of Wren's player acquisition and player development regime has been spotty at best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top