NL Rookie of the Year Watch

Super said:
Having to be on top 100 lists is incredibly stupid. Reward teams for having their guys up and developing players well, fine. But not counting it if they didn’t make top 100 lists? I don’t know why they should matter.
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Also, those lists have become increasingly inaccurate. Player development has changed the game — so many guys come out of nowhere to become impact stars. We’ve even got a few of those ourselves. I get why the lists exist, but they end up hurting teams when there are so many bad evaluations.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Also, those lists have become increasingly inaccurate. Player development has changed the game — so many guys come out of nowhere to become impact stars. We’ve even got a few of those ourselves. I get why the lists exist, but they end up hurting teams when there are so many bad evaluations.
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Those lists are nice but they aren't super accurate. The Braves have produced several guys that weren't on them or weren't highly ranked.
 
Hudson2 said:
Those lists are nice but they aren't super accurate. The Braves have produced several guys that weren't on them or weren't highly ranked.
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I stopped following a few years ago when I realized our development made them mainly obsolete. We've been a bottom-10 farm system for the last three or four years, yet we constantly produce ROY candidates. It's just a fruitless follow.
 
thewupk said:
So less treat their top prospects like the Cubs treated Kris Bryant. Teams did and will still manipulate service time but that one was the most public and obvious.

Braves are punished a bit because they don't let their best prospects stay in the minors that long. Aggressive promotions has been the name of the game for a bit here.

Cam Camminiti seems like a guy that could be up for an extra pick assuming he's not called up mid season and loses his status whenever it's time for him to debut.
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But isn’t awarding the pick for ROY supposed to take care of that? The lists are arbitrary and inaccurate. It’s a really dumb wrinkle on a debatably dumb idea.
 
Super said:
But isn’t awarding the pick for ROY supposed to take care of that? The lists are arbitrary and inaccurate. It’s a really dumb wrinkle on a debatably dumb idea.
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I think it's doing a pretty good job so far. No doubt Carroll, Julio Rodriguez, Henerson, and Witt would have had their clocks delayed without the rule. And that's just the 4 players that earned their team a pick.

How inaccurate are the lists really? It doesn't favor Atlanta much because of how aggressive the team is with promotions. But I don't see that as a failure in the rankings.
 
It isn't that the lists aren't accurate, or our development making our kids better.

It takes time for the prospect gurus to gather info that the club already has and publish lists every mid season, or post season. By that time unless a guy literally lights a level on fire, they aren't jumping them up from the 300 area to inside the 100.

By the time they'd go into the top 50 on any list they are already in Atlanta producing. You'd need for them to have elite pre draft hype or just a performance off the charts for these later round guys to make a list early enough to be included by the time the hit AA.

We just promote before they get enough buzz in the media circles.
 
thewupk said:
I think it's doing a pretty good job so far. No doubt Carroll, Julio Rodriguez, Henerson, and Witt would have had their clocks delayed without the rule. And that's just the 4 players that earned their team a pick.

How inaccurate are the lists really? It doesn't favor Atlanta much because of how aggressive the team is with promotions. But I don't see that as a failure in the rankings.
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What do those guys have to do with lists?

Why should a team with a ROTY who wasn’t on top prospects lists not be rewarded? I’m ok with rewarding teams for bringing their guys up. Shouldn’t that be the case with or without subjective lists?
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Also, those lists have become increasingly inaccurate. Player development has changed the game — so many guys come out of nowhere to become impact stars. We’ve even got a few of those ourselves. I get why the lists exist, but they end up hurting teams when there are so many bad evaluations.
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To fix this the Braves simply need to play the game a bit. These lists are heavily influenced by information given to these writers by their contacts in the organization. So…give these guys more info when they come around begging for it.
 
Super said:
What do those guys have to do with lists?

Why should a team with a ROTY who wasn’t on top prospects lists not be rewarded? I’m ok with rewarding teams for bringing their guys up. Shouldn’t that be the case with or without subjective lists?
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The whole point of the reward is so that teams don't keep mega prospects down a few weeks to gain a year of service time. Those guys I listed are the very reason the reward exists. Without it there is a high chance they would be hitting FA a year earlier later than what they were going to originally.

The reason it's not applied to top prospects is those guys weren't being kept down to manipulate their service time.
 
thewupk said:
The whole point of the reward is so that teams don't keep mega prospects down a few weeks to gain a year of service time. Those guys I listed are the very reason the reward exists. Without it there is a high chance they would be hitting FA a year earlier later than what they were going to originally.

The reason it's not applied to top prospects is those guys weren't being kept down to manipulate their service time.
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But the reward with an extra pick for winning ROY at least partially fixes that issue. Ranking should really have nothing to do with it.
 
thewupk said:
The whole point of the reward is so that teams don't keep mega prospects down a few weeks to gain a year of service time. Those guys I listed are the very reason the reward exists. Without it there is a high chance they would be hitting FA a year earlier later than what they were going to originally.

The reason it's not applied to top prospects is those guys weren't being kept down to manipulate their service time.
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And you don’t see how that’s dumb?

There will be a time where a fringe top 100 guy wins it, and isn’t on each necessary list. This is dumb. You can say it’s dumb, man. It’s dumb to incorporate the lists.

Yes, the pick is the reward. Leave it there. Incorporating subjective top prospect lists is dumb.
 
I don't think all those guys would have be kept down personally. I think teams prioritize winning now over manipulating the clock.. Carroll would have easily start day one. I would bet Witt as well... especially since both those guys and Julio too were given contracts before arb.. it was clear to the org, they wanted to keep them around and wanted them playing immediately.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I don't think all those guys would have be kept down personally. I think teams prioritize winning now over manipulating the clock.. Carroll would have easily start day one. I would bet Witt as well... especially since both those guys and Julio too were given contracts before arb.. it was clear to the org, they wanted to keep them around and wanted them playing immediately.
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That became a thing once this rule was in place and was certainly not the norm among top prospects. Even the Braves kept Acuna down and still gave him a massive payday well before arb. It was just something every team did.
 
Super said:
And you don’t see how that’s dumb?

There will be a time where a fringe top 100 guy wins it, and isn’t on each necessary list. This is dumb. You can say it’s dumb, man. It’s dumb to incorporate the lists.

Yes, the pick is the reward. Leave it there. Incorporating subjective top prospect lists is dumb.
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Fringe top 100 guys win it all the time. But those weren't the players being held back for service time manipulation abuse.
 
thewupk said:
Fringe top 100 guys win it all the time. But those weren't the players being held back for service time manipulation abuse.
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So what? What use does the ranking stipulation have? As Cy said, the same goal is accomplished without it.

Could make the argument that if a team really believes in a guy who isn’t ranked, that they’re incentivized to keep him down and get an extra year of control since they won’t be rewarded for him anyway.
 
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