Braves Trade Heyward, Walden to Cardinals for Miller and Tyrell Jenkins

thewupk said:
So he didn't know what Heyward wanted yearly or that he wanted to become a free agent. Just a maybe and some strong feelings.
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John Hart like any executive is basically a politician. Absolutes will never be used.
 
thethe said:
Wells never came close to the absolute suckage that UPton is at now.
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Massive revisionist history. Vernon Wells sucked massively the first 2 years of his deal compiling a 1.1 fWAR. He did play pretty well before the Angels stupidly took on his contract, all 4 years and 89 million left on his deal, With 2/42 left on his deal the Angels then traded him to the Yankees, and they ate about 2/3 of that deal after he sucked for the Angels. WE should be able to move BJ and free up a chunk of change, the Braves don't do that though. They don't sell off players to save any money. It's a stupid baseball adage about sunk cost.s
 
thewupk said:
John #1 was around for the BJ deal. Both Johns were here with the CJ deal. Wren got fired as a scape goat. The good ole boys are still there. Making more terrible decisions.
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So since they were "around" they are more responsible than Wren? Okay. Its speculation both ways to assume whether or not those contracts are given with/without Wren as the point but they were and Wren was the head to roll. Call him a scape goat if you will but BJ and Uggla's contracts are albatrosses for this team somebody had to take responsibility.
 
thethe said:
Yes, because the Braves were facing losing a great player like HEyward for nothing but a compensatory pick. Now that would have been a disaster. This was good value for 1 year of a player who will have great production in 2015.
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They had MONTHS left to see if a team gets desperate. No one like Heyward was available.
 
thethe said:
I agree 100% so since you and I both thought Wren had an overall successful tenure then JS takes credit for that as well.
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Sure and the apparent failure since the team apparently needs to be blown up based on 6 bad weeks. I think there is zero chance Heyward gets traded if the team makes the playoffs this year. They try to ride it out again next year and win it all. 6 weeks is all it took to change their mind.
 
BremanFan88 said:
So basically Hart is spinning Jason wanting to get to get through his arbitration years as not wanting to sign a long term extension. Apparently he should of gone to them with that first because our FO is fairly obtuse and not capable of negotiating with Jason Heyward. Pretty much lets us know that they don't value Heyward.
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We are obviously going to interpret these comments in different ways but to me that certainly sounds like they had discussions about a long term extension and it was clearly more than what they felt Heyward was worth.
 
BremanFan88 said:
Heyward went to them with that 2 year extension but I forgot he's a liar and the Braves tried to lock him up longer despite there being zero evidence to back that up.
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So you think they didnt offer him an extension while locking up Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel and Julio with extensions?

Just a 2-year deal, no talk about one.
 
Dalyn said:
They had MONTHS left to see if a team gets desperate. No one like Heyward was available.
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What do you think we were going to get for a one year rental?

The Braves have a plan going into this offseasonand the first domino needs to fall before the rest ofthe plan can move forward.
 
braves31win said:
So since they were "around" they are more responsible than Wren? Okay. Its speculation both ways to assume whether or not those contracts are given with/without Wren as the point but they were and Wren was the head to roll. Call him a scape goat if you will but BJ and Uggla's contracts are albatrosses for this team somebody had to take responsibility.
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I'm not denying that. They were horrible moves. I just find it funny that Wren was scapegoated because the team had a horrible 6 weeks to end the season.
 
thethe said:
We are obviously going to interpret these comments in different ways but to me that certainly sounds like they had discussions about a long term extension and it was clearly more than what they felt Heyward was worth.
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So they're just crap evaluaters who decided a follow up wasn't needed. Good to know everyone is doing their do diligence.
 
Bravesfan205 said:
When I asked Hart if there had been any recent negotiations with Heyward about an extension, Hart gave the impression that there hadn’t been any further talks since last offseason.

“He wanted a two-year deal and wasn’t interested in a long-term extension unless the dollars were maybe beyond where the club certainly wanted to go. We had a strong feeling he was going to go on the market. That’s what he wanted to do. We wanted to protect ourselves and position ourselves better. If we elect, next year, to be one of 30 [teams] that compete for Jason on the market then that’s what we’ll do.”

Direct quote from Hart per mlbtr. Heyward obviously made it clear last year that he wanted to hit free agency to make the most he can. I don't blame him. And even if he wanted to stay here there's a huge risk in letting him test free agency so I can't really blame Hart for playing it safe and getting a decent return for him.
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Can Hart speak with some ****ing conviction for once?

Again, this is just supporting Heyward's testimony. If true, then this front office is more inept than I thought possible.
 
thewupk said:
Sure and the apparent failure since the team apparently needs to be blown up based on 6 bad weeks. I think there is zero chance Heyward gets traded if the team makes the playoffs this year. They try to ride it out again next year and win it all. 6 weeks is all it took to change their mind.
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The team has more problems than a bad 6 weeks.

Needed to replace 400 innings with limited money.

2B, C, CF all need to be upgraded.

Bullpen as well (not sure why they gave them Walden when he could have been used in another deal)

And keeping Heyward and just getting a comp-pick would look bad.
 
thethe said:
What do you think we were going to get for a one year rental?

The Braves have a plan going into this offseasonand the first domino needs to fall before the rest ofthe plan can move forward.
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No point arguing with you. Unless someone blows you away this early, you don't trade someone like Heyward. I know you can't really look at Miller and Jenkins for Heyward and Walden and say, "Yep. The Cardinals blew the Braves away with that offer!"
 
Heyward said:
So you think they didnt offer him an extension while locking up Freeman, Simmons, Kimbrel and Julio with extensions?

Just a 2-year deal, no talk about one.
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I can only assume(like everyone else) that no real talks took place. Probably just some feeling out but I think it's become painfully clear that Hart and company don't value what Heyward brings so they probably low-balled him.
 
BremanFan88 said:
So they're just crap evaluaters who decided a follow up wasn't needed. Good to know everyone is doing their do diligence.
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Because you believe they are crap evaluators? If Heyward never develops into a better offensive player his overall WAR numbers aren't going to look great in 2-3 years.
 
Dalyn said:
No point arguing with you. Unless someone blows you away this early, you don't trade someone like Heyward. I know you can't really look at Miller and Jenkins for Heyward and Walden and say, "Yep. The Cardinals blew the Braves away with that offer!"
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Basically everyone that has reported on this deal says its a great deal for both sides. Isn't that what you are looking for when you make a deal?
 
CyYoung31 said:
Can Hart speak with some ****ing conviction for once?

Again, this is just supporting Heyward's testimony. If true, then this front office is more inept than I thought possible.
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Someone in Harts position will never speak in absolutes. You are showing your hand that way.
 
thethe said:
Because you believe they are crap evaluators? If Heyward never develops into a better offensive player his overall WAR numbers aren't going to look great in 2-3 years.
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They're not exactly proving me wrong. Because Jason is going to fall apart in his PRIME years. Are you even aware that Jason is only 25?
 
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