yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
And Shelby Miller is not a TOR pitcher.
Braves in on Yasmany Tomas
- Thread starter Hawk
- Start date
And Shelby Miller is not a TOR pitcher.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Hmmmm
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Could he be? Sure. He is definitely not right now, wasn't last year, and that's not really debatable.
Tapate50
Well-known member
He absolutely was in the second half, and was all the year before... So 3/4 of his career be has pitched like an absolute TOR starter. I guess you just like seeing the glass half empty ?
Super low BABIP. It won't continue and you know it.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I know one thing: It happened. Couldn't that be a correction for the first half?
Regardless of why, it happened. That performance is in the books. Can't change it or asterisk it. Its done.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
Ah, the good ol' Horrible Ratios* Defense. "If you ignore the times when he is bad, he is amazing!"
I actually have high hopes for Miller, so I wouldn't argue against him having a lot of potential. But... that's potential. If he'd actually pitched 3/4 of his career thus far like an ace, he'd have a career FIP under 4.00.
*Happy Birthday Horacio!
It doesn't work that way. Miller has to improve in several areas before his 4 FIP is considered TOR.
Tapate50
Well-known member
His stellar second half is booked. No changing that. It happened. He was a legit TOR guy after the ASB after using a sinker.
He stumbled out of the gate in a sophmore season after a great rookie year. Not really anything crazy about that.
Yes it is fact. Just like Chris Johnson's awesome season in 2013 is a fact. Doesn't mean we should expect his super high BABIP to continue. Guess what? It didn't. Players can buck the trend with BABIP for a season. It happens quite often. But continuing to do that? Well that doesn't happen. Miller will not have a BABIP in the low 200's in 2015. If he wants an ERA that's not in the upper 3's or low 4's he's going to need to improve his K rate and BB rate.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Or maybe he learned a sinker from Justin Masterson and learned how to get ground ball outs, which gives statheads the illusion of less dominance but what it really represents is a pitcher maturing and figuring it out.
Tim Hudson was sinker heavy with ratios that belied his effectiveness.
You can't just look at the statistics. You have to watch the games.
Hudson has a career 280 BABIP. A far cry from .210. And his career era is about .30 below his career FIP. Not that big of a deal. Not like a 3.00 ERA and a 4.10 FIP. That kind of differnece doesn't happen year after year. It's been proven.
Deester11
Well-known member
Stop confusing us with good arguments.
DirkPiggler
Well-known member
Thank you.
It's funny how many posters will argue that Jason Heyward can still become a consistent .800 plus OPS guy with 30 HR power because he's only 25, yet believe Miller has hit his ceiling at age 24 with only two seasons under his belt. When you argue for one of those points you contradict the other.
For the record I think both players have their best baseball in front of them. Tremendous upside for both guys.
Miller does have upside. But those that think he is a TOR right now because of a 2nd half with a super low BABIP are wrong. He has a ways to go to be that guy.
Deester11
Well-known member
Perhaps I'm late to the party, but i think the word is "POTENTIAL." Conversely, we've been talking potential with JHey for years as well. A point was made that Miller was as highly thought of as Teheran and to have them both is a good thing. I guess the painful point for most will just be what we gave up to get him.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
You can't just look at a number.
I have no idea if Miller is a TOR guy or will be. But there are multiple evaluators who have said that he changed his approach. More CB, sinker, etc.
You keep screaming BABIP. That works if the guy pitches the same way with different results. In this case the guy make changes. Obviously luck could have made those changes more impactful that they really were. We are talking really low sample size here.
