BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
sturg, I think here is your answer.
Ferguson....
- Thread starter goldfly
- Start date
sturg, I think here is your answer.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
Everything that fits our preferred narratives we think is true and we run with it. Facts be damned.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
In sturg's defense, they provide a context for understanding something of the rage involved. That said, isn't this a vicious cycle. People have predetermined judgments in every case, many times the facts don't jive with those judgments, and those who had opposite judgments or who have tried to wait before making a judgment then tend to have greater disdain for the first group and both groups are driven further a part. Then the next event occurs and here we go again.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
For recliner-cops, of course he is a lousy cop.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
You can protest without destroying property. What has been going on in Ferguson the past two nights is not protesting.
And I agree that the rioting after a team wins a sports championship is stupid.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
Sure you are. Silly to say you aren't.
You can if you don't want to get your message across. A bunch of people sitting around with linked arms chanting Kumbaya is going to get no media attention whatsoever.
I had the 'pleasure' of observing several key anti-austerity protest countries in Europe beginning in the United Kingdom in 2011 and later in Greece and Spain in 2012/13. Generally speaking, those people know how to riot -- little to no looting, destruction concentrated on buildings like banks, municipal buildings, government offices. They knew that the only way to legitimately be heard was to be angry and loud. And for the most part those protests produced positive results for their movements; laws were changed ... politicians were scared.
I approve of the riots in Ferguson although I agree with the results of the Grand Jury. I respect the perception of unfairness and the right of the aggrieved to express their unhappiness. What I don't approve of is the looting, the gun fire, the 'lets take it out on everybody' mentality.
JMO.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
The bold part is where I'm getting at. Thanks to these riots, innocent business owner, who had absolutely nothing to do with this whole situation, have lost their businesses due to the stupidity of these hooligans. To add to the problem, many of those rioting aren't doing so because they are upset at the no indictment decision. They are rioting just to riot. And because of that, many businesses that help the local economy were torched and innocent people are living in fear.
Where I do disagree is protests that are non-violent don't get a message across. Marches in New York, Los Angeles, and even here in Mobile have been held and have had no problems (at least not that I have heard). The media needs to get out of Ferguson. They have been a big part of the problem. They have been a fuel to this literal fire.
What message do they need to get across? We need Cops to take our abuse and not defend themselves?
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Because of this brilliant post, no sarcasm, because you nailed the bold part. I decided to say a thing or two.
1. If Officer Wilson KNEW they held up the store, the wisest thing you do is call in for backup right then and there and watch until backup arrive. You do not know if he is armed or not and has an accomplice that is armed. You do not tell someone to come to your car so you can talk to them, that is stupid.
2. Brown shouldn't have done what he done and now he is earthworm food. He decided to be thuggish and paid the ultimate price.
3. I don't think Officer Wilson told the whole truth but I also find the media guilty as well in making the story bigger than he is.
4. Officer Wilson has a right to defend himself when someone that big is coming for him especially at his scrawny size. Zito or I can probably handle someone big but Lord help us if it was a 5'2" 120 lb female cop, but knowing they are smarter she would have done #1 on my list.
Lastly, all parties were wrong, Wilson handled this wrong, Brown died because he was acting stupid, media made this bigger than it should be and now the neighborhood resembles Detroit on a good day.
My brothers and sisters will never grow up, therefore we will always be thugs and looked at wrongly by the law and people like me get shouted down because I don't act "black" enough. If that is how blacks are looked at and act......THANK GOD I don't act black enough.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
No it presented an opening for anarchy. I am willing to bet only a handful of people are actually from Ferguson.
Tomahawking4life
Awaiting a Promotion
Yes, police do go through training before they start. Part of that training is the Use of Force Continuum which includes Levels of Force. Now in these Levels of Force, you can slowly escalate starting with soft and empty hand control techniques, moving up to intermediate weapons such as tasers or OC Foam if necessary, and then lethal force. However, you can also go straight to lethal force when necessary, and skip the other steps.
I don't really see how Officer Wilson had any time to slowly escalate through the Levels of Force. From what I've heard Brown was only about 40' away. Do you know how fast someone can cover 40'? It's a matter of seconds. Wilson didn't have time to go for a taser, and if that didn't work go for something else. If the taser doesn't work, Brown would have been back on him trying to get his gun again.
Alternatives sound all nice and stuff, but in this situation, I wouldn't want to count on them. Would you if you felt like your life was in jeopardy?
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Taser was not going to put someone that big and full of adrenaline down.
Wilson did what he had to do, no choice, but he should not even be in that situation to begin with. As a police officer in a black neighborhood surrounded by a lot of blacks and you are white and you see a robbery suspect.
Just think about that for a moment. Hell, I am black and I see a 6'4 300 lb thug and an accomplice, you think I am going to say "hey you, come here I want to talk to you".
Common sense even though I have a weapon would say, hmmm, I should get backup just in case? He didn't, now we got downtown Gaza in the middle of the United States.
For one, he didn't shoot him 12 times. Secondly, even he had shot him 12 times, your argument is still terrible. Cops are trained that, when they are required to shoot, they are to shoot and continue shooting until the threat is eliminated. You say 12 shots is excessive. I say it takes less than 10 seconds to fire off 12 rounds . And that is hardly enough time to determine when someone is no longer a threat.
57Brave
Well-known member
This was probably the first time in policing history an officer was attacked by a 300 lb man within 40'.
Right?
Becasue we hear of this type of incident regularly -- right?
Sorry to disappoint Bedell but I don't have a dog in the fight and will freely admit I am a recliner cop. I don't know what happened who told the truth or who lied and Browns side, well we never will know. But what I do know is this -- Barney Fife was given one bullet for a reason.
Asked earlier but never got a response -- so here goes again
It seems the same people, almost to a "T", that defended George Zimmerman are defending this Wilson cop .
Maybe that is the discussion that needs being had
Right?
Becasue we hear of this type of incident regularly -- right?
Sorry to disappoint Bedell but I don't have a dog in the fight and will freely admit I am a recliner cop. I don't know what happened who told the truth or who lied and Browns side, well we never will know. But what I do know is this -- Barney Fife was given one bullet for a reason.
Asked earlier but never got a response -- so here goes again
It seems the same people, almost to a "T", that defended George Zimmerman are defending this Wilson cop .
Maybe that is the discussion that needs being had
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
I know, right. Clearly his aim should be much better.
2 of the shots were in the care when Brown was grabbing for his gun, so 6 outta 10 aint too shabby.
Because you're an expert on the subject with all your days on the force?
This isn't Hollywood. Shootings happen in a manner of seconds. And no one gets a head shot every time like in Walking Dead.