2015 Farm System Rankings (Law 6th/Fangraphs 6th)

yeezus said:
lol, so MORE speculation that we didn't get "full value" for someone despite zero evidence of it. Okay.

What would you expect for Walden? A RP who's had (non-serious) arm problems here and there?
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Why are you being such a dick about this? So we can't question any move because GASP - that would mean we're speculating!!!!!!!
 
sturg33 said:
Why are you being such a dick about this? So we can't question any move because GASP - that would mean we're speculating!!!!!!!
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That's...not at all what I said. I've questioned moves plenty.
I was saying we can't just assume Hart didn't get the best deal possible for JUp and state it as fact.
 
Dalyn said:
The Braves waited until all the teams they were talking to filled their outfield need before making a deal. They held out (which means they turned down counteroffers) for an epic deal until everyone walked away and you're crazy if you think the Padres didn't take advantage of that.

You guys might think there is "zero evidence," but I could get a conviction.
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I don't agree with this at all. Justin Upton was going to have a market at all times. I mean he was clearly the top hitter available. Other teams might have made some decent additions, but none as significant as Upton would have been. The Mariners were reportedly still in the running, even after acquiring Ruggiano and Cruz.

I won't deny the Braves obviously held a slight negotiating edge before some of these moves were made, but I seriously doubt it significantly affected the market and potential return for Upton. It isn't like the return we got was poor. Some people may not like it, but it was pretty decent value for a 1 year rental. Not a steal by any means, but solid overall value.
 
Carp said:
I don't agree with this at all. Justin Upton was going to have a market at all times. I mean he was clearly the top hitter available. Other teams might have made some decent additions, but none as significant as Upton would have been. The Mariners were reportedly still in the running, even after acquiring Ruggiano and Cruz.

I won't deny the Braves obviously held a slight negotiating edge before some of these moves were made, but I seriously doubt it significantly affected the market and potential return for Upton. It isn't like the return we got was poor. Some people may not like it, but it was pretty decent value for a 1 year rental. Not a steal by any means, but solid overall value.
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Exactly. I'm not sure what the expectation was for a damn good player for 1 year and a 27-33 pick.
 
Carp said:
I don't agree with this at all.
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JFYI, you can disagree with Dalyn all you want here but Hart pretty much admitted as much after the fact according to Jeff Schultz of the AJC. But this is old news and was covered on here previously in one of the older Justin Upton threads.
 
Link? Google search shows quick Google search doesn't show anything.

Not saying you are lying, I would just like to read it.
 
Braves1976 said:
JFYI, you can disagree with Dalyn all you want here but Hart pretty much admitted as much after the fact according to Jeff Schultz of the AJC. But this is old news and was covered on here previously in one of the older Justin Upton threads.
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yeezus said:
That's...not at all what I said. I've questioned moves plenty.
I was saying we can't just assume Hart didn't get the best deal possible for JUp and state it as fact.
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There you are again speculating that I'm speculating. :popcorn:
 
Braves1976 said:
JFYI, you can disagree with Dalyn all you want here but Hart pretty much admitted as much after the fact according to Jeff Schultz of the AJC. But this is old news and was covered on here previously in one of the older Justin Upton threads.
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Hart said he had better offers but he blew it?
 
Carp said:
Link? Google search shows quick Google search doesn't show anything.

Not saying you are lying, I would just like to read it.
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As I said, check the older Justin Upton threads as I know it was brought up in one of them. There was an AJC article by Schultz with quotes and he posted some quotes by Hart on twitter back then too.
 
I heard Hart had a Justin for Trout 1 for 1 deal but asked for the Angels GM right testicle as a throw in. They counter offered his left testicle but Hart passed.
 
yeezus said:
Hart said he had better offers but he blew it?
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No, Hart isn't that stupid. No one is going to say they outright blew it on a trade. Unless it is years later when such cannot come back to bite them (and even then due to pride and such I doubt it).
 
Braves1976 said:
As I said, check the older Justin Upton threads as I know it was brought up in one of them. There was an AJC article by Schultz with quotes and he posted some quotes by Hart on twitter back then too.
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Yep. And Hart mentioned that they were holding out for a specific type of deal, and that he felt they were close with the Padres BEFORE the Matt Kemp deal. He then mentioned that the Myers deal after that also changed things. But I'm sure by close he really meant that he had made an offer to the Padres and they hadn't even countered or replied. Because if they HAD, it would've been for more than what they'd offer after getting Kemp and especially after getting Myers on top of that.
 
Dalyn said:
Yep. And Hart mentioned that they were holding out for a specific type of deal, and that he felt they were close with the Padres BEFORE the Matt Kemp deal. He then mentioned that the Myers deal after that also changed things. But I'm sure by close he really meant that he had made an offer to the Padres and they hadn't even countered or replied. Because if they HAD, it would've been for more than what they'd offer after getting Kemp and especially after getting Myers on top of that.
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Right. BTW, I found an Upton trade article in Jeff Schultz blog from back then but it has been updated and those quotes by Hart don't seem to be included. So either it's not the same article or Schultz had to remove those quotes for some reason. I haven't checked twitter for the other quotes though.
 
dak said:
Fangraphs will be publishing their top 200 prospect list tomorrow. The Braves are tied for first with 11 prospects in the top 200, but a lot of their guys look to be toward the back of the list. Intro article linked below.

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http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-200-prospects-the-process-and-introduction/
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This illustrates what I and several others have said about our rebuild. While I am in the camp of being on board with the rebuild, the only issue I have is that while we rebuilt our farm system from a bottom 5 to being rated 6th best, we didn't get any elite prospects in any of the trades. If you gave each column a weighted number (say 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1), we would get 24 points while the Cubs would get 31, even though we both have 11. Even the Twins who only have 8 as opposed to our 11 have 26 points to our 24.

I'm overall happy with the rebuild, but it would have been nice to have gotten at least 1 60-65 prospect. It's for that reason I have to give the rebuild a solid B as opposed to an A.
 
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