Net Neutrality

Dalyn said:
This is true. I am not in support of ANYONE controlling the internet, especially my access to it. But they already do, and if it is going to happen, I would rather it have some oversight.

The government is clearly not in it to help the little guy, but that does not mean their interests will never coincide with our own.

There are definitely barriers to competing in certain areas.

The government is already spying. This changes nothing.

It isn't the free market when companies have a monopoly in certain areas and take full advantage of it.

This is NOT the ideal outcome. I hate that control exists at all. But it is better than the realistically available alternative.
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So what happens when you spend all this money for fiber optics and it's obsolete in 5-10 years?

Do you currently have issues getting on and using the internet? Are there services that you are restricted from using? Are you paying too much?
 
gilesfan said:
Innovation blooms without government regulation. Do you think if the government still ran the phone system, we would have smart phones?

People seem to believe that government is on a mission to help the little guy; when is that ever the case? You don't think the government looks after telecoms?

We see new competition coming on line all the time in the telecom industry. There aren't barriers to entry, which will exist with government regulation. (as is always the case)

How about privacy? Some of the people for net neutrality advocate privacy.....yet, they support the government, who tampers with routers with the purpose of spying?

Net neutrality is a good cause in theory. Government regulation isn't the answer though. Do you want the free market to choose how to allocate this finite resource or do you want the government to tell us how to allocate?

This quote from forbes sums it up:

Five years from now a new satellite technology may emerge that makes fiber obsolete, and we’ll all be getting wireless terabit downloads from space directly to our smartphones, anywhere in the world, for $5/month. Unrealistic? Just think what someone would have said in 1994 if you had tried to explain to them everything you can do today on an iPhone, and at what price.
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So who is this new competition we see coming into the telecom industry "all the time"?

I want the government to help invest and build the infrastructure that will allow us to have the fastest high speed internet in the world, since we are after all the greatest country in the world. Just as the government has invested in infrastructure projects before. The problem is politics have become so partisan the other side just wants to see the government fail instead of it working.

And LOL at your quote. It took Comcast literally 8-10 years in my area to offer consumer 50mbps download. Took another 4 years for them to offer 100mbps download. Yet in 5 years... the cellular companies who are still stick on 4GLTE, will have new technology that will enable 1TB download speeds from satellites.

I would love to live in that bubble you live in.
 
gilesfan said:
So what happens when you spend all this money for fiber optics and it's obsolete in 5-10 years?

Do you currently have issues getting on and using the internet? Are there services that you are restricted from using? Are you paying too much?
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I feel like you're asking all of these deflecting questions because you don't do your own homework on the subject.

It's really not our fault you have no idea what you're talking or debating about.
 
gilesfan said:
Do you currently have issues getting on and using the internet? Are there services that you are restricted from using? Are you paying too much?
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No.

There are services that are noticeably slower than they should be.

I am paying more in my area than the same services from the same company in areas in the same state with basically the same cost of living, but with competition.
 
Dalyn said:
No.

There are services that are noticeably slower than they should be.

I am paying more in my area than the same services from the same company in areas in the same state with basically the same cost of living, but with competition.
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I wish I could thank that last sentence 3 times. People who think our current internet options are OK need to get a brain and do some research on what competition actually does.
 
I do a lot of business online, and I recently bought a house. I called Comcast TWO WEEKS before moving to get the internet ready in the new house so that I wouldn't have to go out of my way not to lose money, and I finally had internet ELEVEN days after moving in. I talked to Comcast fifteen straight days (started four days before moving in because they still didn't have it up) for thirty+ minutes per conversation. They kept hinting that certain specials had priority, and that I might speed things along if I purchased one of those instead (more expensive, of course). In the end, they refused to even wave their installation fee (which I've NEVER paid in an area with competition). It was ridiculous, but I was basically held hostage and had no other option.
 
Heywood said:
So who is this new competition we see coming into the telecom industry "all the time"?

I want the government to help invest and build the infrastructure that will allow us to have the fastest high speed internet in the world, since we are after all the greatest country in the world. Just as the government has invested in infrastructure projects before. The problem is politics have become so partisan the other side just wants to see the government fail instead of it working.

And LOL at your quote. It took Comcast literally 8-10 years in my area to offer consumer 50mbps download. Took another 4 years for them to offer 100mbps download. Yet in 5 years... the cellular companies who are still stick on 4GLTE, will have new technology that will enable 1TB download speeds from satellites.

I would love to live in that bubble you live in.
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5 years ago, the only ISP available to me was Cox Communications. Nowadays there are several to choose from, which is why my internet keeps getting faster and cheaper. I was using dial up when you were still ****ting in diapers. But, dial up wasn't good enough so technology was advanced. Innovation..........Once Fios and Fiber were added, companies like Comcast were forced to increase internet speed, thus the DOCSIS 3.1. That's what happens when you don't have the government controlling the industry. Today Fiber is considered the future, what will it be in 5 years? When will fiber be obsolete? Obviously if govt gets control, they will slow down technology and fiber may not become obsolete.

Again, how did healthcare work out when the government got involved?

Hows the internet in the UK, btw, the government stepped into the telecom business?

In 2013, the US had an average Mbit/s of 6.0, 31st in the world. In 2014, it increased to 10.5, 11th in the world.

Why does South Korea have such fast internet? Deregulation, Also 83% of its' internet users reside in urban areas, how do you compete with that?

If the government wants to lay the infrastructure and get the out of the way, that's one thing, but even you can't admit that that is what would happen. Again, you haven't answered me on how this gets paid for.

Where's the money?

Critics of the U.S. Internet system argue that with more competition, the U.S. could have cheap, speedy Internet like South Korea. However, they can't explain where the money will come from to fund faster speeds with lower costs to consumers.

If the big U.S. ISPs were earning huge monopoly profits, competition might be an easy solution. However, even at the biggest and most profitable broadband providers, operating margins are around 20% and after-tax profit margins are in the high single-digits or low teens -- relatively reasonable levels considering the capital-intensive nature of the business.

Even if these companies are forced to open their last mile connections to competition, they would still have to be able to cover their costs and earn a margin. (The competing ISPs would also have to be able to earn a profit.) This would prevent major price cuts or major increases in investment.

More competition in the broadband industry might help improve the industry's terrible customer service standards. It also would give consumers more service tiers to choose from. However, the two things people care about most -- price and speed -- wouldn't change much. Suburban sprawl means that the U.S. won't be able to match South Korea's cheap, speedy Internet service.
 
Dalyn said:
I am paying more in my area than the same services from the same company in areas in the same state with basically the same cost of living, but with competition.
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When is this ever going to "not be the case?" And not just internet, for everything? Does everyone have the same utility bills?
 
gilesfan said:
5 years ago, the only ISP available to me was Cox Communications. Nowadays there are several to choose from, which is why my internet keeps getting faster and cheaper. I was using dial up when you were still ****ting in diapers. But, dial up wasn't good enough so technology was advanced. Innovation..........Once Fios and Fiber were added, companies like Comcast were forced to increase internet speed, thus the DOCSIS 3.1. That's what happens when you don't have the government controlling the industry. Today Fiber is considered the future, what will it be in 5 years? When will fiber be obsolete? Obviously if govt gets control, they will slow down technology and fiber may not become obsolete.
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So you're saying that competition is good? And the ISP's ideal world (having total control) is a bad thing? Shocker!

BTW, most places in the US in my experience don't have options. I lived in New Brunswick, a fairly large NJ city, and a massive college town, and home of one of the bigger hospitals in NJ, and yeah, we had Cablevision, that's it. My apartment didn't even have DSL because Comcast essentially stopped DSL. For a long time they held back satellite as well.
 
Dalyn said:
I do a lot of business online, and I recently bought a house. I called Comcast TWO WEEKS before moving to get the internet ready in the new house so that I wouldn't have to go out of my way not to lose money, and I finally had internet ELEVEN days after moving in. I talked to Comcast fifteen straight days (started four days before moving in because they still didn't have it up) for thirty+ minutes per conversation. They kept hinting that certain specials had priority, and that I might speed things along if I purchased one of those instead (more expensive, of course). In the end, they refused to even wave their installation fee (which I've NEVER paid in an area with competition). It was ridiculous, but I was basically held hostage and had no other option.
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Move to an area with better internet service providers.:elefant:

I signed up for Cox Communications when I moved in. Called about 3 months in advance and it was ready when I moved in. Really legit deal paying almost nothing for the first 2 years. After that, I just switched to FiOS, who were tripping over their dicks to get new customers so got an even cheaper deal.
 
zitothebrave said:
So you're saying that competition is good? And the ISP's ideal world (having total control) is a bad thing? Shocker!

BTW, most places in the US in my experience don't have options. I lived in New Brunswick, a fairly large NJ city, and a massive college town, and home of one of the bigger hospitals in NJ, and yeah, we had Cablevision, that's it. My apartment didn't even have DSL because Comcast essentially stopped DSL. For a long time they held back satellite as well.
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Having the government in control does not promote more competition. I can't believe you actually are trying to say that.

Does New Brunswick have Direct TV, Verizon, Time Warner, centurylink?
 
gilesfan said:
Move to an area with better internet service providers.:elefant:

I signed up for Cox Communications when I moved in. Called about 3 months in advance and it was ready when I moved in. Really legit deal paying almost nothing for the first 2 years. After that, I just switched to FiOS, who were tripping over their dicks to get new customers so got an even cheaper deal.
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Do you support monopolies and think they're good for innovation and the free market?
 
gilesfan said:
Having the government in control does not promote more competition. I can't believe you actually are trying to say that.

Does New Brunswick have Direct TV, Verizon, Time Warner, centurylink?
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It does not promote more competition, but it will eliminate the methods being used to create monopolies, which will in turn create competition.
 
gilesfan said:
When is this ever going to "not be the case?" And not just internet, for everything? Does everyone have the same utility bills?
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That's fine, if you believe there's a free market. There isn't in the telecom world when cable providers bribe governments
 
Dalyn said:
You're missing the point.
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They are trying to classify the internet as a public utility, correct? Am I wrong on this?

Do public utilities invest in fast-changing technologies? Yes or No

Internet speed/performance/price/etc. is constantly improving? Yes or No

If yes, would it improve at the same pace under control of the govt? Yes or No

How is public infrastructure in the US? Good or bad?

How many people under the age of 60 still have land lines? Why are people moving away from land lines?

Besides, how painful would it be to watch Netflix if everything was equal? :pound:
 
I'd be surprised if anyone who lived in a place with a monopoly cable provider would think that giving those guys more latitude to dictate the terms of the market would be a good idea. They're all lazy, monopolistic, and anti-customer.
 
gilesfan said:
Having the government in control does not promote more competition. I can't believe you actually are trying to say that.

Does New Brunswick have Direct TV, Verizon, Time Warner, centurylink?
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Direct TV yes, parts have verizon DSL (not real broadband) that's it. Conversely a coworker of mine who lived where FIOS existed had much better options. Where I live now, only have Time Warner. Where my parents live, Comcast. No one offers 2 broadband providers in those areas
 
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