What was the stupidest thing the three Johns did?

[Hawk]

SO basically you have no argument other than simply arguing over unquantifiable shenanigans.

My argument is that Jace Peterson has more raw power than Tommy La Stella.

It's ironic and pointless that we're even discussing this, as power doesn't remotely factor into their game.

It's like you don't fully grasp the developmental track from the minor leagues to MLB. The idea that a player is going to reach the bigs with sterling fundamentals is rare. Players have to constantly work on things (taking pitches, hitting for power, etc.) and that can really happen at any time during a career, regardless of age.

 

[clvclv]

My argument is that Jace Peterson has more raw power than Tommy La Stella.

It's ironic and pointless that we're even discussing this, as power doesn't remotely factor into their game.



It's like you don't fully grasp the developmental track from the minor leagues to MLB. The idea that a player is going to reach the bigs with sterling fundamentals is rare. Players have to constantly work on things (taking pitches, hitting for power, etc.) and that can really happen at any time during a career, regardless of age.

Isn't this exactly what both players' statistics reflect? Why does it matter in that case?

So La Stella runs into 7 mistakes a year and Peterson runs into 5 - does that make either of them a better player?

 

[zitothebrave]

As I said in my original post, observation is empirical.

Observation is empirical. What a dumb thing to say. Of course it is since empirical is visual observation. When it comes to baseball players that's just one part of evaluation. And that's when it's done by professionals, not when it's done but internet jaggoffs like you and I. Find me a scouting report saying Peterson has more power than TLS

Talk about trying to squeeze water from a rock.

Oh so about 1800 and 1200 plate appearances isn't enough to get a general idea? I guess the month you've watched Peterson play in the majors for the BRaves is enough to convince you but the years of data is just diddly poo.

 

[zitothebrave]

My argument is that Jace Peterson has more raw power than Tommy La Stella.

It's ironic and pointless that we're even discussing this, as power doesn't remotely factor into their game.

It's like you don't fully grasp the developmental track from the minor leagues to MLB. The idea that a player is going to reach the bigs with sterling fundamentals is rare. Players have to constantly work on things (taking pitches, hitting for power, etc.) and that can really happen at any time during a career, regardless of age.

You're the one who wanted to discuss this. My findings are based on factual analysis of 2 players who hit the bigs full time at the same ages in different seasons.

Most players who're 25 and rookies don't have too much development to still do. They have some of course, but let's put it this way. The Jose Bautistas of the world who figure out their power stroke at almost 30 are the exception, not the rule.

Even if you want to consider Peterson and equal to TLS in power (I wouldn't) that doesn't change my analysis of him as a player.

 

[Hawk]

Observation is empirical. What a dumb thing to say. Of course it is since empirical is visual observation. When it comes to baseball players that's just one part of evaluation. And that's when it's done by professionals, not when it's done but internet jaggoffs like you and I. Find me a scouting report saying Peterson has more power than TLS

Zito, your masturbatory-level fascination/obsession with TLS is well-documented on these forums, so I'd expect you to take no other approach than one that finds you on your knees less than two inches from LaStella's gherkin.

This is a fun game. Find me a scouting report that says that TLS has more power than Peterson.

Actually, let's just take an informal poll: who on this forum thinks that Tommy La Stella has more power than Jace Peterson?

---

This isn't Baseball Mogul. Statistics are incredibly useful and informative, but you've got to find the correct formula to utilize them in tandem with traditional observation.

 

[Hawk]

You're the one who wanted to discuss this. My findings are based on factual analysis of 2 players who hit the bigs full time at the same ages in different seasons.

Most players who're 25 and rookies don't have too much development to still do. They have some of course, but let's put it this way. The Jose Bautistas of the world who figure out their power stroke at almost 30 are the exception, not the rule.

Even if you want to consider Peterson and equal to TLS in power (I wouldn't) that doesn't change my analysis of him as a player.

I just think it's rich that you are so convicted about the power potential of a player that you've never actually seen play baseball (aside from a minute long YouTube video taken in the batting cage, I guess).

 

[yeezus]

Zito, your masturbatory-level fascination/obsession with TLS is well-documented on these forums, so I'd expect you to take no other approach than one that finds you on your knees less than two inches from LaStella's gherkin.

This is a fun game. Find me a scouting report that says that TLS has more power than Peterson.

Actually, let's just take an informal poll: who on this forum thinks that Tommy La Stella has more power than Jace Peterson?

---

This isn't Baseball Mogul. Statistics are incredibly useful and informative, but you've got to find the correct formula to utilize them in tandem with traditional observation.

Forget about the power. Jace is simply a better player. That matters more.

 

[zitothebrave]

Zito, your masturbatory-level fascination/obsession with TLS is well-documented on these forums, so I'd expect you to take no other approach than one than finds you on your knees less than two inches from LaStella's gherkin.

This is a fun game. Find me a scouting report that says that TLS has more power than Peterson.

Actually, let's just take an informal poll: who on this forum thinks that Tommy La Stella has more power than Jace Peterson?

---

This isn't Baseball Mogul. Statistics are incredibly useful and informative, but you've got to find the correct formula to utilize them in tandem with traditional observation.

This post is utter non-sense. First sentence is just non-sense. Infact your defense of Jace Peterson would make pretty much anyone here think you have a masturbatory-level fascination with him.

Good deflection at the end. You know you'll find no results. Since no scouting report out there has even a little nice thing to say about peterson. Haven't even read one that says he has doubles power.

You're correct in the last sentence. But traditional observation relies on the talent of the observer. I know jack **** about dressage. Me watchign a horse prance around a ring and offering my opinion is traditional observation, but there's no value to it as I don't know what I'm looking for. ON that same note, you don't know what you're looking at when it comes to power. La Stella has more of an uppercut to his swing which involves meeting the ball on it's downward plane which leads to more power. If he was bigger and stronger he'd probably be kind of comparable to Utley in terms of power. That being said, he's not so he works with what he has.

Small sample issues here. But this is TLS's average linedrive, flyball, popup, and homer distance is 259.911 Peterson's is 243.216

I know there's not much value in that statistic since both of them combined have only like 500 PA. But my point is something somewhere should say Peterson has more power if you're gonna say based on observation he has more power and I'd maybe hold a little stock in your valuation.

 

[zitothebrave]

I just think it's rich that you are so convicted about the power potential of a player that you've never actually seen play baseball (aside from a minute long YouTube video taken in the batting cage, I guess).

I saw him play with the Padres a bit last year.

And again, you're willing to take you watching him for a month over seasons of data. No scouting report out there says he power potential. I haven't been able to find anything linking peterson with power aside from scouting report articfles on him from sites that offer power rankings. WHen I lack scouting reports, and I'm comparing 2 players of similar age, similar hitting styles, etc. I'm gonna lean way more on the numbers than I am in your opinion or my opinion.

 

[rico43]

And I think we got some decent position prospects. Too early to tell on Dustin Peterson, but I think people looked at his first full-season year and somehow discounted him. He was the 50th pick overall in the 2013 draft. Mallex Smith is off to a good start in AA, but I wonder if his bat will carry. Ruiz is scuffling right now, but the two-dimensional stat sheet portends that he isn't over-matched.

And I think we are growing some decent guys of our own. If Connor Lien can ditch his Francoeurish approach, he could develop. Still only 21. I'm high on Albies, of course, and I think we have to remember that a year ago, Davidson was probably worried more about his prom date than SALLY League pitching. Curious to see how they balance hitting and pitching in the upcoming draft and international signing period.

PS--Cubs' way was also helped dramatically by Billy Beane's brain fart.

FYI: As of Monday, Dustin Peterson is third in the Carolina League in hitting. Just sayin'

 

[thethe]

Dustin has the perfect 3 things going for him right now.

1. Tools are plus based on scouting reports
2. Young for his league
3. Performing at the league

Dustin is a real deal prospect and we need to recognize that. Based on this season he has flown up the listings.

 

[zitothebrave]

Dustin has the perfect 3 things going for him right now.

1. Tools are plus based on scouting reports
2. Young for his league
3. Performing at the league

Dustin is a real deal prospect and we need to recognize that. Based on this season he has flown up the listings.

Season is still young.

Peterson has a high ceiling. I wonder if he'll move to the OF assuming RUiz cements his position at 3B. Ruiz is another high potential bat. From what I've read Ruiz is the better defender though it's neither of their calling cards.

 

[Hawk]

I know jack **** about dressage. Me watchign a horse prance around a ring and offering my opinion is traditional observation, but there's no value to it as I don't know what I'm looking for.

First it was your cousin's scouting report on Nick Markakis.
Then it was your brother's raw power as a baseball player in High School.
Now we're talking about dressage. I don't even ****ing know or care what that is.

You drop anecdotal perspective in when it's convenient to your argument, just like your analysis of Peterson's swing, swing plane, La Stella's uppercut, etc. etc. But then, in the same breath, you lapse back into weakly founded statistical 'findings' RE: Peterson's minor league career.

I've kept it simple the entire time: Peterson has more raw power than LaStella and there's a multitude of reasonable explanations as to why we haven't seen more power from him so far. As if it were really the crucial element preventing him from succeeding at the Major League level (which, let's face it, was the only point you were trying to make in your initial post).

 

[zitothebrave]

First it was your cousin's scouting report on Nick Markakis.
Then it was your brother's raw power as a baseball player in High School.
Now we're talking about dressage. I don't even ****ing know or care what that is.

You drop anecdotal perspective in when it's convenient to your argument, just like your analysis of Peterson's swing, swing plane, La Stella's uppercut, etc. etc. But then, in the same breath, you lapse back into weakley founded statistical 'findings' RE: Peterson's minor league career.

I've kept it simple the entire time: Peterson has more raw power than LaStella and there's a multitude of reasonable explanations as to why we haven't seen more power from him so far. As if it were really the crucial element preventing him from succeeding at the Major League level (which, let's face it, was the only point you were trying to make in your initial post).

1. My cousin has watched Markakis for almost 1400 games. Not counting the minor league games he saw him play. I would trush his opinion on the man. You don't have to. Early returns seem to indicate he was right. He's shown no power so far, and small smaple returns on his defense aren't good. I'm not a believer in writing osmeone off/praising them because of small sample defense. But I have more than a sneaky suspicion it will remain that way.

2. My brother is a total anecdotal evidence contribution. Because that was how he hit. He could have been a moderate power guy instead he hit like 3 homers his amateur baseball career. Because he elected to focus on contact hitting and plate discipline.

Your argument is simple because you have no evidence. You think in your non-expert opinion based on one month of watching someone play that he has more power than someone you watched for about 2 months. Wow ground breaking analysis George Soros.

 

[rico43]

I never dreamed I would see more discussion about La Stella than Heyward by those who love to cling to what might have been. Me, I would have liked to have seen a lineup with JUp in left and Kelly J at second. But I love me some prospects.

 

[chipchildress]

What has lead you to believe that they won't reinvest the savings?

It's barely been 30 days since the trade was made.

because i've been paying attention for the last ten years?

 

[zitothebrave]

I never dreamed I would see more discussion about La Stella than Heyward by those who love to cling to what might have been. Me, I would have liked to have seen a lineup with JUp in left and Kelly J at second. But I love me some prospects.

I don't reall care that we traded La Stella, I wish we got more than a cheating reliever though. TLS wasn't gonna be a great player, /he's a bit player who won't hurt you. Kinda similar to what Troy Glaus was to us 2010. An area you can upgrade but not necessarily a pressing need.

 

[Hawk]

1. My cousin has watched Markakis for almost 1400 games. Not counting the minor league games he saw him play. I would trush his opinion on the man. You don't have to. Early returns seem to indicate he was right. He's shown no power so far, and small smaple returns on his defense aren't good. I'm not a believer in writing osmeone off/praising them because of small sample defense. But I have more than a sneaky suspicion it will remain that way.

2. My brother is a total anecdotal evidence contribution. Because that was how he hit. He could have been a moderate power guy instead he hit like 3 homers his amateur baseball career. Because he elected to focus on contact hitting and plate discipline.

Stop.

Your argument is simple because you have no evidence. You think in your non-expert opinion based on one month of watching someone play that he has more power than someone you watched for about 2 months. Wow ground breaking analysis George Soros.

It's pretty simple. You are claiming the equivalent of saying that David Eckstein had more power than Rafael Furcal.

Firstly, it's pointless, secondly it's inane, and thirdly it doesn't require rolling out the evidentiary red carpet.

 

[Hawk]

because i've been paying attention for the last ten years?

That doesn't seem very likely.

 

[yeezus]

lmao zito bringing up his brother's swing hahahaha i'm dying