SB Nation Profile of Leo Mazzone

thethe said:
I'm sure Bedard didn't go downhill because he was injured. Not a chance. Cabrera was still awful even under the tutelage of Leo.

Again, Leo was a good pitching coach but the pitching success the Braves enjoyed while Leo was there had more to do than just Leo. However, he was part of it and deserves some of the credit but not all.
Click to expand...

He deserves to be in a wall of honor or a retired number or at least a ceremony celebrating his accomplishments. Maybe letting him in the clubhouse or around spring training would be good.

You know, something better than dragging his name through the mud and banning him from the team.
 
Hawk said:
Leo didn't really have much time in Baltimore, did he? I think Perlozzo got the boot relatively quick and Mazzone actually ended up awkwardly hanging on for a little while afterwards.

All I know is that the Braves never seemed to have a problem turning absolute trash into serviceable pieces when he was pitching coach:

Shane Reynolds
Albie Lopez
Chris Hammond
Darren Holmes
Jaret Wright
John Thomson
Russ Ortiz
Jorge Campillo
And that list goes on and on.
Click to expand...

He was only in Baltimore for 2 years.
 
gilesfan said:
He deserves to be in a wall of honor or a retired number or at least a ceremony celebrating his accomplishments. Maybe letting him in the clubhouse or around spring training would be good.

You know, something better than dragging his name through the mud and banning him from the team.
Click to expand...

I would agree that he should be embraced into the organization. I can't argue with that point.
 
Hawk said:
Leo didn't really have much time in Baltimore, did he? I think Perlozzo got the boot relatively quick and Mazzone actually ended up awkwardly hanging on for a little while afterwards.

All I know is that the Braves never seemed to have a problem turning absolute trash into serviceable pieces when he was pitching coach:

Shane Reynolds

Albie Lopez

Chris Hammond

Darren Holmes

Jaret Wright

John Thomson

Russ Ortiz

Jorge Campillo

Jorge Sosa

And that list goes on and on.

They also seemed to know when to dump young pitchers at the height of their value: Damian Moss, Odalis Perez, Horacio Ramirez
Click to expand...

I must have missed the time when Shane Reynolds was anything other than dead weight in a Braves uniform.
 
gilesfan said:
He deserves to be in a wall of honor or a retired number or at least a ceremony celebrating his accomplishments. Maybe letting him in the clubhouse or around spring training would be good.

You know, something better than dragging his name through the mud and banning him from the team.
Click to expand...

He made sure there were balls in the bullpen, scheduled catchers for pitchers and what else? Showed Doggie how to paint or Smoltz how to throw smoke?
He was a pitching coach -- shoot if anyone deserves a plaque it is TP. He is great at reminding runners at first how many outs there are.

Please, he was a pitching coach. Not a pitcher or even the manager who took the heat after a loss.
Wondering if in St Louis they are having the same discussion over Dave Duncan?
 
thewupk said:
I'm not really blaming McDowell for that. I just find it funny that the hated Leo had great pitcher performance without having many pitchers blow up and when he's gone we now lead the world in Tommy Johns. Personally I think it's a curse by the baseball gods.
Click to expand...

**** that, I'll definitely blame McDowell for this. At the end of 2011 we had 5 promising starters aged 23-25 throwing for us: Jurrjens, Hanson, Beachy, Medlen, Minor. Those guys are all worthless garbage fires now. McDowell's has completely failed at his main responsibility: keeping our pitchers, especially the young cheap ones, healthy.

JohnAdcox said:
I think, and I include this first clause to make it clear that I am going purely on opinion and (at best) casual observation, that Leo’s great under-appreciated contribution was his unorthodox throwing program — two bullpens between starts instead of one, Camp Leo, etc. That may or may not have any any impact at all on a pitcher’s effectiveness, but (again, unscientific opinion) it does seem to have reduced injuries. Seems worth looking in to, at least to me.
Click to expand...

Yes, this exactly. I specifically remember right before the first Camp Roger or whatever it is called. I felt an ominous chill come over me when McDowell said that he wasn't gonna keep up the obviously successful Mazzone throwing regimen. And here we are, a terrible team that can't keep a young pitcher healthy to save our lives.
 
57Brave said:
He made sure there were balls in the bullpen, scheduled catchers for pitchers and what else? Showed Doggie how to paint or Smoltz how to throw smoke?
Click to expand...

Smoltz was a mechanical trainwreck when we got him from Detroit. You think he magically fixed his mechanics on his own? No, his minor league instructor got him on track, thus allowing him to blossom into a HOF pitcher. I'll give you one guess as to who that instructor was.

57Brave said:
Wondering if in St Louis they are having the same discussion over Dave Duncan?
Click to expand...

I would imagine Dave Duncan is extremely well thought of in St. Louis.
 
Metaphysicist said:
Smoltz was a mechanical trainwreck when we got him from Detroit. You think he magically fixed his mechanics on his own? No, his minor league instructor got him on track, thus allowing him to blossom into a HOF pitcher. I'll give you one guess as to who that instructor was.

I would imagine Dave Duncan is extremely well thought of in St. Louis.
Click to expand...

Bruce Dal Canton

/Shank'd
 
Smoltz was also an emotional train wreck when he got to ATL. The psychologist that helped JS untwine his head deserves as much if not more credit than anyone.
That was in fact the first time I'd heard of a sports Psychologist openly used in pro sports.

Yes they hold Duncan in very high esteem in St Lou. But I don't think he lobbies for recognition. Let alone 10 years after the fact
///

Let me be clear before I am assigned to one camp or the other. I am of a mind that coaches in general get too much credit.
Let's use Seitzer and the offensive emergence of Simmons as an example. Simmons is still the guy that goes to the plate and in a split second decides what to and what not to swing at.
I was run offa the board last season for suggesting McDowell was vastly overrated and was far more disposable than Fredi over dubious pitching decisions.
 
DirkPiggler said:
I must have missed the time when Shane Reynolds was anything other than dead weight in a Braves uniform.
Click to expand...

He won 11 games as the #5 starter in 2003. Take out three bad outings and his era dips to ~4.20.

I will grant you that team was an offensive juggernaut, I can't find his run support numbers.

Nothing special, but given that he signed for the league minimum I'd say the Braves got a decent return.
 
Hawk said:
He won 11 games as the #5 starter in 2003. Take out three bad outings and his era dips to ~4.20.

I will grant you that team was an offensive juggernaut, I can't find his run support numbers.

Nothing special, but given that he signed for the league minimum I'd say the Braves got a decent return.
Click to expand...

I just remember watching him pitch every fifth day, and wanting to gouge my eyes out every time.
 
Those of you that believe that pitching coaches, and coaches in general don't make a difference, must be the same one's that believe that manager's have little influence on the outcome of ballgames.

That's rediculous to the third degree.

Leo certainly wasn't perfect, just like Roger isn't. Not every pitcher that came to the Braves under Leo's tenure worked out, but more often than not, ALOT and I mean ALOT of them did and outperformed their performance pre and post Braves. Part of it was scouting and evaluation. Part of it was coaching. But I can go on and on and on about no name has been's that were considered to be done that we're reborn in a Braves uniform and performed beyond their expectations or standards.

The detractors will always point to Maddux, Glavine, & Smoltz. Those guys took care of themselves, their skills and reputation speak for themselves. But our pitching staffs consisted of so much more than that. Every year Bobby and Leo were given a makeshift bullpen of has beens and no one's that would perform and prove to be a strength of the team. The closer position was a revolving door. Guys came here and revived their careers and got paid elsewhere, only to never perform up to their Atlanta success.
 
For those that don't remember the Sugar Shane Adventures in 2003, his first two starts were spectacular. I think his second start he pitched 8 shutout strong and we were like my god Leo did it again.

THen the rest of the year, it was like Teheran 2013. A struggle to get past the 4th, a struggle to get to the 5th.
 
Heywood said:
THen the rest of the year, it was like Teheran 2013. A struggle to get past the 4th, a struggle to get to the 5th.
Click to expand...

He went more than 5 innings in 22 of his 30 starts in 13'.

Look at me, defending Sugar Shane.

Actually, this is better ... posted by he who shall remain nameless after those first couple of amazing starts Heyward referenced:

Shane Reynolds is an Atlanta Brave. Before you give total credit to Leo Mazzone, remember this: Reynolds only joined the team last Monday. Has Leo talked to him so much that he's turned him around in a week? Doubtful. This guy is just good. Shane Reynolds is a quality pitcher. For the first time in possibly three seasons, he's healthy. It does make a difference.

Reynolds also may have found some magic by simply putting on the Braves uniform. It seems to do something to pitchers. Wearing the tomahawk across your chest seems to make them better pitchers.

MFII was slightly more tempered (surprise, surprise) in his expectations:

The fundamental question is: How well will Shane Reynolds pitch for the Atlanta Braves? The fundamental answer is: I don't know.
 
Shane Reynolds was horrible, and I don't ever ever ever want recollections to be brought to my brain about that year. I hated that pitching staff outside of Maddux, Horacio, & Smoltz. It was fun watching the offense but damn it was brutal watching Ortiz, Hampton, and Reynolds pitch and then watching guys like Ray Burger King, Blowberto, Gryboski, and Trey Hodges try to get it to Smoltz.

After watching the efficiency experts pitch for so long, it was brutal watching the direct opposite. Ortiz and his 3 hour starts just to get through 6.1 innings, UGH! Brutal. Never again.

Thanks again JS you moron. And it was even worse beforehand acquiring these guys and then having to trade my main guy Milly.
 
Hawk said:
He went more than 5 innings in 22 of his 30 starts in 13'.

Look at me, defending Sugar Shane.

Actually, this is better ... posted by he who shall remain nameless after those first couple of amazing starts Heyward referenced:

Shane Reynolds is an Atlanta Brave. Before you give total credit to Leo Mazzone, remember this: Reynolds only joined the team last Monday. Has Leo talked to him so much that he's turned him around in a week? Doubtful. This guy is just good. Shane Reynolds is a quality pitcher. For the first time in possibly three seasons, he's healthy. It does make a difference.

Reynolds also may have found some magic by simply putting on the Braves uniform. It seems to do something to pitchers. Wearing the tomahawk across your chest seems to make them better pitchers.

MFII was slightly more tempered (surprise, surprise) in his expectations:

The fundamental question is: How well will Shane Reynolds pitch for the Atlanta Braves? The fundamental answer is: I don't know.
Click to expand...

For Teheran, you can't tell me Hawk you don't remember it seemed like almost every start or every other start his pitch count was almost 80-90 at the start of the 4th inning. Knowing Fredi was limiting him to 100 pitches at most being a rookie, it was not fun watching Julio's pitch counts in the 2nd or 3rd inning be at 50-60 pitches already.
 
What's funny is Shanks used to praise Leo as much as we did on the board. The "Leo Candidate" or "Mazzone Magic" posts were frequent often with Shanks leading the charge.

Then months after Leo left, Shanks started unraveling stuff about Leo, etc. like he'd been holding a deep dark secret.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
Shane Reynolds was horrible, and I don't ever ever ever want recollections to be brought to my brain about that year. I hated that pitching staff outside of Maddux, Horacio, & Smoltz. It was fun watching the offense but damn it was brutal watching Ortiz, Hampton, and Reynolds pitch and then watching guys like Ray Burger King, Blowberto, Gryboski, and Trey Hodges try to get it to Smoltz.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Jung Bong and Kent Mercker (whose 17 innings we acquired at the cost of Matt Belisle ... who morphed into a pretty damn good reliever).

Russ Ortiz won 21 games.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top