Sherman: Braves offered Heyward 80M after 2013

thethe said:
Braves are not done...not even close. But now they are in a position to add and not to sell. The selling will be done opportunistically if the situation presents itself such as teams calling on Shelby Miller. I don't think its difficult to construct an argument that the Braves are ready to compete for a world series as early as 2016.
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this is incredibly optimistic and depends on hypotheticals. We dont know if the braves will even add anything. All they have done recently is slash payroll with the saving face add of markakis.
 
BRule said:
Use whatever year you want, they are still similar.....here, use his 6th year. Still similar, Winfield, again....more power, no one is saying otherwise. For whatever reason people want to make Heyward out to be some scrub who never lived up to his "potential" it's just bull**** and that's the point of posting Heyward's comp coming out of High School and the side by side stats. People are posting laughing at Heyward's first 5 years because they are SLIGHTLY worse than Winfield, who's a HOF'er. It's a joke and it's the ex-Braves-itis at it's finest.

Winfield's wOBA - .354
Heyward's wOBA - .342

Winfield's wRC+ - 123
Heyward's wRC+ - 115

Winfield's oWAR - 91.0
Heywards's o WAR - 72.1

Winfields' ISO - .168
Heyward's ISO - .165
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Well it's poor comparison considering you are using not even half a season from Winfield in your "6 year comparison." And Winfield's power is quite a significant advantage. WAR valutations are crap, especially for Winfield's era. rWAR has him as negative defensive value for most of his career, despite a reputation as a good defender for much of his career, especially in his prime. Hell his defense was considered so well by the Pads that they even played him CF at times (sound familiar?)
 
sturg33 said:
It's not a bad argument Mr. Matter of Fact.

Th money could have been used for extensions or future year payroll. Instead, it's to pay Alberto Callaspo.

Look at our payroll today and check out what we're paying for. It's depressing.
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There is no reason to assume that unused payroll rolls over to future payrolls and raises our spending limit.
 
Carp said:
Well it's poor comparison considering you are using not even half a season from Winfield in your "6 year comparison." And Winfield's power is quite a significant advantage. WAR valutations are crap, especially for Winfield's era. rWAR has him as negative defensive value for most of his career, despite a reputation as a good defender for much of his career, especially in his prime. Hell his defense was considered so well by the Pads that they even played him CF at times (sound familiar?)
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People think Derek Jeter is a good defender too.
 
Carp said:
Well it's poor comparison considering you are using not even half a season from Winfield in your "6 year comparison." And Winfield's power is quite a significant advantage. WAR valutations are crap, especially for Winfield's era. rWAR has him as negative defensive value for most of his career, despite a reputation as a good defender for much of his career, especially in his prime. Hell his defense was considered so well by the Pads that they even played him CF at times (sound familiar?)
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His half of season is not in the numbers and I only posted the offensive WAR........ try again.
 
Carp said:
There is no reason to assume that unused payroll rolls over to future payrolls and raises our spending limit.
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I think it's a very reasonable assumption. Or could be saved for deadline deals to entice a team to give up a better prospect or be able to afford a better player. There's a lot of good reasons to not spend that money if you don't have anything good to spend it on
 
thethe said:
Not with their starting pitching.
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Pitching has been a big problem this year. We have title pitching IF Julio is back, IF WOOD is back to last year, IF Shelby picks it up, IF Folty becomes TOR, and another pitcher is good. Still not sure b/c I don't think those guys are going to be dominant. The other playoff teams have guys like Kershaw that just dominate and miss a ton of bats.

The Braves need significant offensive upgrades. FF needs to be a 25 hr guy. Simmons needs to improve. Markakis needs to keep up this crazy OBP as does Jace. Team needs more extra base hits and it will like require new guys.

I'm hoping player improvement plus Peraza and Smith can get us there......I just don't believe it in my heart. I don't think we can single our way to a WS.
 
Winfield's defensive prowess was built on more than simply gold gloves. And that is something easily googleable. Nevertheless, it isn't like he won 1 or 2 GG's. He won 7. But I guess people would rather stick their heads in the sand when their stats don't match up.

From the SABR website:

He was a good basestealer and a great baserunner. He played defense with equal enthusiasm. Athletic and graceful, he gobbled up ground with long strides, sported a steady glove, and boasted one of the most lethal throwing arms in the history of the game.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Pitching has been a big problem this year. We have title pitching IF Julio is back, IF WOOD is back to last year, IF Shelby picks it up, IF Folty becomes TOR, and another pitcher is good. Still not sure b/c I don't think those guys are going to be dominant. The other playoff teams have guys like Kershaw that just dominate and miss a ton of bats.

The Braves need significant offensive upgrades. FF needs to be a 25 hr guy. Simmons needs to improve. Markakis needs to keep up this crazy OBP as does Jace. Team needs more extra base hits and it will like require new guys.

I'm hoping player improvement plus Peraza and Smith can get us there......I just don't believe it in my heart. I don't think we can single our way to a WS.
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Jesus. How much better do you expect him to pitch?
 
sturg33 said:
Our offense has been better because of:

Maybin (I would have made that deal whether we were rebuilding or not)

AJ (not going to continue - is not part of the magical 2017

Simmons (but he is coming back to earth)

KJ (not going to conitune - is not part of the magical 2017

A little bit of Jace Peterson - but not much

A little bit of Markakis - but the lack of power is becoming comical

Basically - the offense is starting to sputter now that everything is coming back to earth. We're still winning games because of the pitching is getting better
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AJ- they cant make trades for a catcher, Lucroy?

KJ- Lot of outfielders hitting FA, and of course could trade for one or call up Mallex Smith.

With how good the rotation is, they could contend for a WC spot next year if Hart fixes up the offense and bullpen.
 
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