We Finance Barbarism

sturg33 said:
Dude - you literally said a crying baby, outside of the womb, should be allowed to be killed if the mother says so.
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No what I inarticulately said was " I don't see them as humans until they are cut from the chord. Just another organism supported by the human (woman) that is carrying them."
As in totally dependent on the mother for existence

I "literally" said nothing of the kind
 
zitothebrave said:
The tragic mentality to have is that a bunch of men want to force women to come to term with something that's 100% reliant on that woman. It should be the woman's choice. Regardless. Men shouldn't be forcing women one way or the other.

ANd my point is clear. When the child can really survive outside of the womb that's when it's illegal unless the mother's life is in danger. Which right now seems to be about after 21 weeks. So lets say cut it off at 21 weeks. Anything before then is fine, anything after that the woman's life has to be in danger or there would have to be a really good medical reason to have an abortion at that point.
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None of this addresses your comment I responded to, which was, "What are the odds that a child who's unwanted by his/her parents amounts to much of anything in the world?"
 
Hawk said:
None of this addresses your comment I responded to, which was, "What are the odds that a child who's unwanted by his/her parents amounts to much of anything in the world?"
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Nope, because that's one of many facets of why I am not pro-life from a social/economic perspective. Though in reality, it's mainly because i believe in women having the right to control their bodies and I have no clue what they go through during pregnancy so I don't feel I have even the most minute ability to pass judgement on it, as you feel you do.
 
zitothebrave said:
Nope, because that's one of many facets of why I am not pro-life from a social/economic perspective. Though in reality, it's mainly because i believe in women having the right to control their bodies and I have no clue what they go through during pregnancy so I don't feel I have even the most minute ability to pass judgement on it, as you feel you do.
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Pick up a book then, pregnancy isn't rocket science -- or shrouded in feminine mystique for that matter.

Your laissez-faire approach to this just bizarrely submissive.
 
Hawk said:
Pick up a book then, pregnancy isn't rocket science -- or shrouded in feminine mystique for that matter.

Your laissez-faire approach to this just bizarrely submissive.
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Holy ****ing ****, that's the dumbest post in this entire thread. Read a book. What a crock of ****.

You can read about the pain of getting shot, or kicked in the balls, but until you experience it you won't know what it really feels like.

And that's ignoring the fact that almost all pregnancies are different. For example, my sister-in-law had some real issues, she had morning sickness and other illness complications. But her cousin had no complications.
 
zitothebrave said:
Holy ****ing ****, that's the dumbest post in this entire thread. Read a book. What a crock of ****.

You can read about the pain of getting shot, or kicked in the balls, but until you experience it you won't know what it really feels like.

And that's ignoring the fact that almost all pregnancies are different. For example, my sister-in-law had some real issues, she had morning sickness and other illness complications. But her cousin had no complications.
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So now we've boiled down the essence of pregnancy to pain.

I can't have a comment on abortion because I don't know the pain a woman feels?

Get real, that's weak.

I'm glad you didn't come back with something like post-partum or any of the plethora of psychiatric issues a pregnant woman faces, as that's certainly something I'm willing to concede a lack of personal knowledge on and am incredibly sympathetic to.

Stay sharp there, you eunuch you.
 
Not pain, it's got many terrible factors on a woman, including permanently changing their body.

It's not weak, it's legit. Sorry you think it's weak. I don't expect to change your moronic opinion.

I could have pointed to a number of things. Seriously it's too ****ing much.
 
zitothebrave said:
Not pain, it's got many terrible factors on a woman, including permanently changing their body.

It's not weak, it's legit. Sorry you think it's weak. I don't expect to change your moronic opinion.

I could have pointed to a number of things. Seriously it's too ****ing much.
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But you didn't. You chose pain. It's cool, I'm just trying to guide you here to a better formulated position because you are trying all the wrong angles.

You keep alluding to my 'opinion' on abortion, but you clearly have no idea what that actually is -- you just keep making assumptions and coming across like an angsty child.

I support abortion. I do not support late term abortion, which is what we've been talking about for the past five pages or so.

Did you miss that?
 
Hawk said:
But you didn't. You chose pain. It's cool, I'm just trying to guide you here to a better formulated position because you are trying all the wrong angles.

You keep alluding to my 'opinion' on abortion, but you clearly have no idea what that actually is -- you just keep making assumptions and coming across like an angsty child.

I support abortion. I do not support late term abortion, which is what we've been talking about for the past five pages or so.

Did you miss that?
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Considering your overall opinions you've posted, including you think men should have a say on abortions, yeah, I don't think you're pro-abortion.

And this thread is about Bedell posting these stupid videos that have many issues but he takes as word of god.
 
zitothebrave said:
Considering your overall opinions you've posted, including you think men should have a say on abortions, yeah, I don't think you're pro-abortion.

And this thread is about Bedell posting these stupid videos that have many issues but he takes as word of god.
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We've been talking about 57's 'not alive until cut cord' comment for several days now ...

But I'm interested in hearing how my belief that men (meaning the presumptive father to-be) should have a say in abortions somehow remotely necessitates an anti-abortion standpoint.
 
Hawk said:
We've been talking about 57's 'not alive until cut cord' comment for several days now ...

But I'm interested in hearing how my belief that men (meaning the presumptive father to-be) should have a say in abortions somehow remotely necessitates an anti-abortion standpoint.
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Because they have no say. I mean aside from trying to convince the woman to keep it. Legally they have no say. And nor should they. And it necessitates it in a way because it expands upon the real issue that you don't think that women alone have the right to have control over their bodies.
 
zitothebrave said:
Because they have no say. I mean aside from trying to convince the woman to keep it. Legally they have no say. And nor should they. And it necessitates it in a way because it expands upon the real issue that you don't think that women alone have the right to have control over their bodies.
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Keep jumping to those conclusions, because let me tell you, it's served you well in this discourse so far.

I've never once said that women don't have the right to control their bodies. Feel free to prove otherwise. I've said that men deserve a place in the process, not that they should impinge upon it. The reality is that men are involved, far more often than not. I wonder why?

But I've learned now that making things up as a method of deflection while you frantically backtrack from your odd and indefensible positions (like children don't deserve a chance at life if their parents don't want them, and that men couldn't possibly understand pregnancy because they don't know how painful it is) is a hallmark of discussions with you. Just feel the need to call you out on it.
 
Hawk said:
We've been talking about 57's 'not alive until cut cord' comment for several days now ...

.
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" " I don't see them as humans until they are cut from the chord. Just another organism supported by the human (woman) that is carrying them."

never said what you wrote.

nor did I write "kill a crying baby"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

Full Definition of FETUS

: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

.......................
 
zitothebrave said:
Because they have no say. I mean aside from trying to convince the woman to keep it. Legally they have no say. And nor should they. And it necessitates it in a way because it expands upon the real issue that you don't think that women alone have the right to have control over their bodies.
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Then they should be able to abandon any financial obligations if the woman chooses to go through with the pregnancy
 
57Brave said:
" " I don't see them as humans until they are cut from the chord. Just another organism supported by the human (woman) that is carrying them."

never said what you wrote.

nor did I write "kill a crying baby"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

Full Definition of FETUS

: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

.......................
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Just stop dude. You're a joke
 
sturg33 said:
Then they should be able to abandon any financial obligations if the woman chooses to go through with the pregnancy
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False. Unfortunately the one area where the law should be a dick to a man is when it comes to reproductive rights. And it's quite simple, it's because men have it easy compared to women.
 
Look sturg with an uneducated opinion shocker. You know how hard it is for a woman with child to find a good job that allows her to raise a child? For real, your ignorance is baffling.

Misogyny doesn't surprise me, it's just stupid.
 
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