Julion Teheran over the Years

The Braves will only trade right-hander Julio Teheran if they can get a major league hitter of similar quality and age in return, general manager John Coppolella told Rosenthal. “The days of us trading players like Teheran for prospects are over. We need to get better at the major league level. We would have to be overwhelmed to move Teheran,” Coppolella said.

Good to see we are playing hard to get, as opposed to being in hurry to move a valuable player as we were with Simmons.
 
nsacpi said:
The Braves will only trade right-hander Julio Teheran if they can get a major league hitter of similar quality and age in return, general manager John Coppolella told Rosenthal. “The days of us trading players like Teheran for prospects are over. We need to get better at the major league level. We would have to be overwhelmed to move Teheran,” Coppolella said.

Good to see we are playing hard to get, as opposed to being in hurry to move a valuable player as we were with Simmons.
Click to expand...

Agree. There are some out there that think tehran is declining with his velocity. I think we should only sell really high.

Simmons deal I did not like. That said I temper it thinking that copy knew he had Swanson in the bag for Miller. And clearly he thought Newcombe could fill that ace spot that everyone says we don't have. We will see. We all know big lefties take longer

I actually think the pirates are a good partner bc they could give us a young hitter and a catcher
 
trading julio is a no brainer for the right return. the braves have about 12 guys ready to compete for the rotation in 2018 as it is.
 
I'm not sure we will have a "surplus" of starting pitching come 2018. It should be kept in mind that with injuries and other issues, most major league teams give a significant number of starts to seven or eight pitchers over the course of a season. A lot of prospects, including highly regarded ones, never make it.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm not sure we will have a "surplus" of starting pitching come 2018. It should be kept in mind that with injuries and other issues, most major league teams give a significant number of starts to seven or eight pitchers over the course of a season. A lot of prospects, including highly regarded ones, never make it.
Click to expand...

If anyone, Braves fans should understand this. Do we need to be reminded of the last several years and how many careers were derailed with TJS or control issues or just not being nearly as good as they were hyped up to be?
 
nsacpi said:
I'm not sure we will have a "surplus" of starting pitching come 2018. It should be kept in mind that with injuries and other issues, most major league teams give a significant number of starts to seven or eight pitchers over the course of a season. A lot of prospects, including highly regarded ones, never make it.
Click to expand...

sure, but even fewer daniel castros make it. wisler can look great for the next ten years and it won't matter if the braves never score any runs.

i'd wager of the loads of guys in the system, there are enough to fill out a rotation. as it is now, where does gant get to start? gwinnett? not saying they'll be great or amount to what julio is, but if somebody is offering a real position player for julio, given the makeup of the organization, i'd make the move.

how will you know if sims, newcomb, allard, povse, gant, and anybody else are worth it if that rotation is already full with julio, wisler, folty, and blair?
 
nsacpi said:
Are you concerned about Castro being a starting middle infielder for us in 2017 or beyond? Not very likely. I think we have a prospect or two who are going to keep him on the bench.
Click to expand...

i was at the giants rockies game yesterday and was reminded what it's like to have real hitters. buster posey hit two huge 3 run bombs. arenado and cargo had huge powerful hits that fueled a comeback. having studs circulating through your lineup helps. am i concerned castro will be in the middle infield? probably not, but albies seems to be the next bj upton at shortstop with his error rate. beyond that there's dansby and nobody else. so yeah, castro very well may be a part of the braves plans down the line if nothing happens.

i suppose the braves may want to see how the draft and international signing period goes before making any move on julio barring some mind blowing offer, but in a month or two if he's still being the same pitcher and there's a real major league position player under long term control or legit prospect being offered in exchange, i can't see how you'd think twice about it barring some crazy major haul in the draft or other trades.

then again, maybe they get 3 or 4 college age guys who are pretty close in the draft and a couple of them end up being real prospects and it is all good. it's not like the braves need 8 all star prospects, but they certainly need more than 1 plus a few of other guys who might be ok one day.
 
IMO it all comes down to value and positional need. Does a team offer a controlled bat 25 or so with 4 + years of control who fills a need and carries a WAR per season avg of 2+? Then we should probably move Teheran. If not? then we wait
 
Russ2dollas said:
Agree. There are some out there that think tehran is declining with his velocity. I think we should only sell really high.

Simmons deal I did not like. That said I temper it thinking that copy knew he had Swanson in the bag for Miller. And clearly he thought Newcombe could fill that ace spot that everyone says we don't have. We will see. We all know big lefties take longer

I actually think the pirates are a good partner bc they could give us a young hitter and a catcher
Click to expand...

Honestly, I think Newcombe's issue right now is that the Braves or another team could not get a hold of him when he was 17 coming out of high school. Instead, he went to Hartford for 3 years and was probably allowed to just throw his fastball past hitters at that level. Now, he is behind on command and control of his pitches. This is only his 2nd full season of minor league ball.
 
I'm open to trading anyone in the Braves system if the right deal came along. I also can see why Teheran would be an attractive acquisition target for another team.

But I don't understand the notion that we should be anxious to move him. As others have noted, he is our only established major league starting pitcher. We do NOT have a surplus of starting pitching, not now and probably not anytime soon.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm open to trading anyone in the Braves system if the right deal came along. I also can see why Teheran would be an attractive acquisition target for another team.

But I don't understand the notion that we should be anxious to move him. As others have noted, he is our only established major league starting pitcher. We do NOT have a surplus of starting pitching, not now and probably not anytime soon.
Click to expand...

I agree that we don't have a SP surplus. if we had 3 established guys at the ML level and THEN all of the prospects we have, I'd be fine with saying that. all of our "depth" is prospects, which are wildly unpredictable. we're not in a great place to trade a 200 inning horse.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm open to trading anyone in the Braves system if the right deal came along. I also can see why Teheran would be an attractive acquisition target for another team.

But I don't understand the notion that we should be anxious to move him. As others have noted, he is our only established major league starting pitcher. We do NOT have a surplus of starting pitching, not now and probably not anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct.. While I believe young pitchers have to experience growing pains at the major league level to get better, a rotation full without an anchor or proven starter is a terrible idea.
 
nsacpi said:
I'm open to trading anyone in the Braves system if the right deal came along. I also can see why Teheran would be an attractive acquisition target for another team.

But I don't understand the notion that we should be anxious to move him. As others have noted, he is our only established major league starting pitcher. We do NOT have a surplus of starting pitching, not now and probably not anytime soon.
Click to expand...

For me it's about probabilities and strengths relative to weakness.

1. The Braves have a number of holes at the ML level line-up. And, even where the holes are "filled" the players that are there are either inadequate (Markakis, Flowers) for a good team or are at an age where they will be in decline (and expensive) by the time the Braves can realistically be good again (Freeman) or are of a type where there are multiple numbers and only one need e used (Mallex and Ender). So, essentially, thinking long term (not how can I make the 2017 better but how does the team become competitive and stay that way), essentially the entire line-up less 2B & SS (with Swanson and Albies penciled in there) and an OF position (with 1 of Ender or Mallex penciled in there) needs an infusion of talent - 1B more long term if you keep Freeman.
2. The Braves historically have been pretty bad at developing high quality ML hitters. Even the ones who roam the ML today (Heyward, Freeman, McCann, Francouer, etc.) are not as good as their talent suggests that they should be, although McCann comes closest over his career with Freeman being in there as well (I am talking offensive value). It just isn't something the Braves have been especially good at doing.
3. The current minor league prospects are mostly very far away (Riley, Acuna, Wilson) are or falling on their faces (Davidson, Ruiz) or appear to be marginal ML players (Peterson) with the exception of the aforementioned Albies and Swanson. So there isn't a lot of realistic help to even project to be available.
4. The FA crop is horrible for 2016-2017. The few bats that are good and available will also be old and expensive. Spend $30M per year over 4 years for Cespedes? Makes the lineup immediately better, but doesn't fill all the holes AND creates a cash flow and performance problem in 2019 & 2020 just when the majority of the young pitching will be mature. Sign Bautista? Even worse.
5. Trade for your offense? OK, what are you going to give up? What would Braun cost in terms of Braves prospects? The Brewers would want young pitching - MULTIPLE young pitchers. Let's say you get Braun for Newcomb, Soroka and Minter. Aren't you undoing what you just worked so hard to do?
6. The Braves have worked hard to trade for and draft a large number of pitching PROSPECTS. It is true that they are just prospects BUT your scouts and baseball people tell you these guys are good and will form your rotation of the future. But, it takes quantity to produce a few of quality.
7. Teheran is a good young starter who is signed to a reasonable contract, who has no significant injury history and appears to be a reasonable bet to produce value through the term of his existing contract. He's a very good #2 but doesn't appear to have the stuff or the steadiness to be a #1. Since Stras re-signed with the Gnats and since the FA and trade market is so bare, he is likely the most VALUABLE pitching trade piece in baseball which means that you can bring back multiple pieces to fill a number of those lineup holes. Is there a chance that he won't be adequately replaced from within by the young pitching on hand with the Braves? Of course. It's a bit of a gamble that the work done up to this point has been done well. However, it is less of a gamble than standing pat and hope for miracles to spring from the minor league system as is to fill current and near future holes in the ML lineup.
 
There are multiple free agents this off-season who could play third and be expected to generate about 2 wins: Prado, Ian Desmond, Justin Turner. Freese and Uribe are not quite at that level but would be decent options as well.

At catcher there are Ramos and Wieters on the FA market. The Yankees might make one of McCann or Sanchez available.

It seems to me that there are options out there to fill in our areas of need without cannibalizing from the future (except to the extent to which doing better in 2017 will affect our draft position).
 
Horsehide Harry said:
For me it's about probabilities and strengths relative to weakness.

1. The Braves have a number of holes at the ML level line-up. And, even where the holes are "filled" the players that are there are either inadequate (Markakis, Flowers) for a good team or are at an age where they will be in decline (and expensive) by the time the Braves can realistically be good again (Freeman) or are of a type where there are multiple numbers and only one need e used (Mallex and Ender). So, essentially, thinking long term (not how can I make the 2017 better but how does the team become competitive and stay that way), essentially the entire line-up less 2B & SS (with Swanson and Albies penciled in there) and an OF position (with 1 of Ender or Mallex penciled in there) needs an infusion of talent - 1B more long term if you keep Freeman.
2. The Braves historically have been pretty bad at developing high quality ML hitters. Even the ones who roam the ML today (Heyward, Freeman, McCann, Francouer, etc.) are not as good as their talent suggests that they should be, although McCann comes closest over his career with Freeman being in there as well (I am talking offensive value). It just isn't something the Braves have been especially good at doing.
3. The current minor league prospects are mostly very far away (Riley, Acuna, Wilson) are or falling on their faces (Davidson, Ruiz) or appear to be marginal ML players (Peterson) with the exception of the aforementioned Albies and Swanson. So there isn't a lot of realistic help to even project to be available.
4. The FA crop is horrible for 2016-2017. The few bats that are good and available will also be old and expensive. Spend $30M per year over 4 years for Cespedes? Makes the lineup immediately better, but doesn't fill all the holes AND creates a cash flow and performance problem in 2019 & 2020 just when the majority of the young pitching will be mature. Sign Bautista? Even worse.
5. Trade for your offense? OK, what are you going to give up? What would Braun cost in terms of Braves prospects? The Brewers would want young pitching - MULTIPLE young pitchers. Let's say you get Braun for Newcomb, Soroka and Minter. Aren't you undoing what you just worked so hard to do?
6. The Braves have worked hard to trade for and draft a large number of pitching PROSPECTS. It is true that they are just prospects BUT your scouts and baseball people tell you these guys are good and will form your rotation of the future. But, it takes quantity to produce a few of quality.
7. Teheran is a good young starter who is signed to a reasonable contract, who has no significant injury history and appears to be a reasonable bet to produce value through the term of his existing contract. He's a very good #2 but doesn't appear to have the stuff or the steadiness to be a #1. Since Stras re-signed with the Gnats and since the FA and trade market is so bare, he is likely the most VALUABLE pitching trade piece in baseball which means that you can bring back multiple pieces to fill a number of those lineup holes. Is there a chance that he won't be adequately replaced from within by the young pitching on hand with the Braves? Of course. It's a bit of a gamble that the work done up to this point has been done well. However, it is less of a gamble than standing pat and hope for miracles to spring from the minor league system as is to fill current and near future holes in the ML lineup.
Click to expand...

I think Shields will be the first domino to fall and the Braves will peg their asking price for Teheran on that deal.

Agree 100% on your assessment of the Braves' inability to develop hitters in recent years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top