Braves interested in Chris Sale...

Braves1976 said:
My thoughts too and I was expecting to be accused of making too low of an offer rather than the response I got. I think some here overrate Folty and Newcomb.
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I wouldn't think twice about moving Newcomb for Sale.

I would think twice about Folty given his improvement. That's the one that you might look back on and regret.

But getting a proven Ace with control at a reasonable price point through 2019 would be an amazing thing.

Inciarte or Mallex would be in the deal, probably Inciarte.
 
zbhargrove said:
How did they make the wrong decision with Simmons? His bat is just as terrible as it always was. Inciarte at least was very good with the bat last year... He's been hampered with nagging injuries this year.
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Simmons is hitting well currently and it's possible he has turned the corner. He also hit decently last season as well and they traded him for a fat left handed pitcher.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
Simmons is hitting well currently and it's possible he has turned the corner. He also hit decently last season as well and they traded him for a fat left handed pitcher.
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He hit well last season? Really? With an OPS under .700? That's awful. He's been no better this year and there's no real evidence he's turned any corner. He's on a bit of a streak right now. He's always had brief hot streaks. And his speed and power have gone from being respectable as a SS to non existent. Newcomb has ace potential if he can get his command under control. And he's still young.
 
clvclv said:
Can't imagine that a rumor that the Braves were "interested" was anything other than an assumption by someone or a smokescreen to disguise potential interest in someone like Matt Moore - I can't fathom Coppy & Company unloading the system they've worked so hard to stock before they're truly in a position to win.

Moore makes all the sense in the world as a target IMO - we need a lefty that's ready, and could package secondary pieces to get him - Sims or Fried, one of d'Arnaud, Peterson, Dykstra, or Obregon, and Acuna for Moore would be a solid trade I'd think.

Julio, Moore, Folty, Wisler, Jenkins/Gant/Perez/Blair/Ellis/Whalen/Newcomb would be a nice combo to open the new park with.
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Not to mention he's had TJS!
 
Enscheff said:
And who would they sign after 2017? Machado? Donaldson? Harper?

Hate to break it to everyone, but the Braves are going to be living in the realm of 2nd and 3rd tier FAs even when they move to the new park. Whether they sign some of those sub-$100M contracts this offseason or subsequent offseasons, they will always be shopping in the same FA zone.

And no, the braves have no business making a run at Sale. If they unload that kind of prospect package it needs to be for a hitter. Just hearing this rumor is giving even more doubts this FO can construct a competitive MLB roster.
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Machado, Donaldson, Harper are all FA after 18 season.

After 17 season you have guys like: Hosmer, Moustakas, Lucroy, Bruce, Cain, Fowler, JD Martinez, Arrieta, Darvish, Eovaldi, Garcia, Moore, Wade Davis, Jake McGee, etc.

After 16 you have guys like: Encarnacion, Bautista, Walker, Prado, Freese, Turner, Valbuena, Castro, Weiters, Beltran, Desmond, Rasmus, Reddick, Saunders, Trumbo, Peavy, Feliz, Holland, Storen, Melancon, Jansen

After the 18 season you get the possible HoF guys.

I certainly don't expect the Braves to spend like the Yankees or Dodgers, but I think you WILL see some money spent on a very high end FA. Nothing precludes that from happening. It hasn't happened in the past because the payroll has been either maxed out or so close that a high end guy was out of range.
 
Donaldson, Machado and Harper are great players. MVP to Hall of Famer class.

Donaldson will be a little different in the sense he will be hitting free agency after his age 32 season (this assumes the Blue Jays don't extent him). So there will be quite a bit of risk involved in any deal that goes five years or longer.

Machado and Harper will be very young, hitting free agency after their age 25 seasons. I expect the O's and gnats to make every effort to extent them, but I think there is a better than 50% chance for each that they go to free agency. Their contracts will likely eclipse all records. I think in both cases the teams they are currently with will make a big push to sign them even after they hit free agency. But my guess is the teams most likely to get those two are the usual suspects: Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers. The Cubs have the financial resources, but I suspect will prioritize holding on to their homegrown core (including Arrieta who hits free agency the preceding off-season) and will stay out of it. Then you have teams that have shown an occasional willingness to make a big splash: the Angels, Tigers, Mariners, Giants, Rangers, Blue Jays and maybe the Cards. That's the competition the Braves will be facing. I don't think we will be serious players for those two. I would be surprised if we configured our activity in the 2016 and 2017 off-seasons with an eye to making a run at one of those two in 2018.
 
zbhargrove said:
He hit well last season? Really? With an OPS under .700? That's awful. He's been no better this year and there's no real evidence he's turned any corner. He's on a bit of a streak right now. He's always had brief hot streaks. And his speed and power have gone from being respectable as a SS to non existent. Newcomb has ace potential if he can get his command under control. And he's still young.
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He's 23 and pitching in AA. I'm not saying in mightn't reach his full potential, but don't pretend like he's a prodigy. He's basically one season from "oh ****, what did we do?"
 
Julio3000 said:
He's 23 and pitching in AA. I'm not saying in mightn't reach his full potential, but don't pretend like he's a prodigy. He's basically one season from "oh ****, what did we do?"
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Seriously. [MENTION=70]clvclv[/MENTION] mentioned Fried as a "secondary" piece, but I actually have a slight preference for him, over Newcomb, all things considered and at this point in their careers. Which, again, is not to say Fried is some slam-dunk prospect, but just that Newcomb a lot less lustrous, I think, than is sometimes portrayed around here.
 
Carp said:
There is no precedent for it. I forgot about Hamels, but saying Sale is "much more highly thought of" is hardly true.
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There is no precedent for someone with Sale's talent being traded with three and a half years of control left either, so none of the previous comparisons really matter. And if you think a 32 year old Hamels was thought of around baseball last year at the deadline the same as a 27 year old Sale is right now, then you are pretty out of touch and seriously underestimating Sale's value.
 
jpx7 said:
Seriously. [MENTION=70]clvclv[/MENTION] mentioned Fried as a "secondary" piece, but I actually have a slight preference for him, over Newcomb, all things considered and at this point in their careers. Which, again, is not to say Fried is some slam-dunk prospect, but just that Newcomb a lot less lustrous, I think, than is sometimes portrayed around here.
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Agreed, Newcomb is our most highly ranked pitching prospect ATM, but I'd easily let him go before I moved Allard, Fried, Soroka, and possibly the three top guys we drafted this year.
 
He was 31, not that at matters as Hamels had actually been MORE valuable over the same time frame as Sale (not to mention the post season dominance factor). The main difference is age and money. But again, you also left out factors like the Phillies taking on Matt Harrison and his bad contract and the good reliever going to Texas.

There is certainly precedent for it, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. I've already listed several pitchers of similar quality with similar control, all of whom did not go for nearly the haul of prospects you claim Sale is worth. And it isn't just pitchers either. Even top level position players with at least 3 years of control haven't gone for that sort of haul.
 
FWIW, I think Sale's "suspension" is to buy the Sox 5 days to see if someone will beat a Profar, Gallo, Brinson, and Tate/Ortiz/Matuella offer from Texas.

Probably what it's going to take, and if I were Chicago I'd have already put Sale on a plane.

Sale/Darvish/Hamels in a short series just wouldn't be fair.
 
Carp said:
I've already listed several pitchers of similar quality with similar control, all of whom did not go for nearly the haul of prospects you claim Sale is worth. And it isn't just pitchers either. Even top level position players with at least 3 years of control haven't gone for that sort of haul.
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From 2012 (when Sale became a starter) through 2014 Sale had 19.4 WAR, Hamels had 15.8. And Sale had better numbers last year as well. So no, Hamels was not even close to being more valuable over that time frame. When you combine the contract and age difference it's not even close.

None of the players you mentioned had similar quality and control, not sure why you are trying to act like they did. Grienke only had 2 years of control, Lee only had 1 1/2, Halladay was about to be a free agent, that's nowhere close to the 3 1/2 years Sale has. And the idea that Miller or Shields are anywhere close to the same level as those three and Sale is completely laughable. Sale has been the 3rd (bWAR) or 4th (fWAR) most valuable pitcher in baseball since 2012.
 
Julio3000 said:
He's 23 and pitching in AA. I'm not saying in mightn't reach his full potential, but don't pretend like he's a prodigy. He's basically one season from "oh ****, what did we do?"
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Sorry, but what I see is a guy who has nasty stuff with the only thing holding him back is his control.
 
clvclv said:
FWIW, I think Sale's "suspension" is to buy the Sox 5 days to see if someone will beat a Profar, Gallo, Brinson, and Tate/Ortiz/Matuella offer from Texas.

Probably what it's going to take, and if I were Chicago I'd have already put Sale on a plane.

Sale/Darvish/Hamels in a short series just wouldn't be fair.
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If they have that offer on the table not sure why he wouldn't already be in Texas. A top 10 guy, top 30 guy, top 60ish guy, and Profar is going to be hard to top.
 
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