Tebow!

Horsehide Harry said:
I just don't see the whole Swanson/Albies at the same time argument. This is a rebuilding team which means if everything goes like the FO would like 2017 will see several first time players, not just Albies but maybe Ruiz, Peterson, Newcomb, Minter, etc. I guess the line of thinking is that both will be superstars, both will require a lot of money eventually and you don't want two MI hitting their 5th year arby both getting $15M per year. But that happening is likely extremely slim.

I think you bring players up when they are ready AND when it best helps the controlling team.

If the Braves wanted to start next season with Swanson at SS and Albies at 2B, and those guys earned it in ST, then fine. I would have no problem with that. That would allow the Braves to NOT have to protect either on the 40 man until the end of ST, it would not start their clocks until 2017 and it would give you a marketing hook for the great unwashed. In the mean time, the Braves would have an extra space on the 40 man to protect their own players, sign "flyer" free agents, utilize the rule 5 and spend all spring evaluating the occupants of those 40 man spaces before having to clear space for Swanson and/or Albies.

That approach would have also allowed Swanson to continue to play with Albies, establishing that ss/2B teamwork and would also have allowed Swanson to refine his offensive game.
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Swanson is refining his game at the MLB level. He's a college kid and he's not going to learn how to hit MLBers in AA. The 40 man argument is whack. There is a lot of filler on there that can be dropped (which has recently happened) that has no impact on any of that. There is not going to be any point this off season where the team is like "Man I wish we could take a chance on this guy but we have Swanson on the 40 man. Too bad".
 
thewupk said:
Swanson is refining his game at the MLB level. He's a college kid and he's not going to learn how to hit MLBers in AA. The 40 man argument is whack. There is a lot of filler on there that can be dropped (which has recently happened) that has no impact on any of that. There is not going to be any point this off season where the team is like "Man I wish we could take a chance on this guy but we have Swanson on the 40 man. Too bad".
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Then they aren't doing their job. When you are rebuilding, you look at every option you can. It becomes a numbers game. For every Harrell, Chacin and Norris you probably have to look at 5 that don't pan out. But all three of those guys brought something back to the Braves.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Then they aren't doing their job. When you are rebuilding, you look at every option you can. It becomes a numbers game. For every Harrell, Chacin and Norris you probably have to look at 5 that don't pan out. But all three of those guys brought something back to the Braves.
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I would rather watch Swanson now and see how he handles the show instead of worrying about a Chain or Norris and what A ball player they might get for them.
 
thewupk said:
Swanson is refining his game at the MLB level. He's a college kid and he's not going to learn how to hit MLBers in AA. The 40 man argument is whack. There is a lot of filler on there that can be dropped (which has recently happened) that has no impact on any of that. There is not going to be any point this off season where the team is like "Man I wish we could take a chance on this guy but we have Swanson on the 40 man. Too bad".
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That just doesn't make any sense. That's saying that all college players should skip AA and go to the majors since they can't learn anything. The whole purpose for all the levels is to pass players up through the stages where they continually refine their game until they reach a high enough level where it's sink or swim time, either they make it to the majors or become AAAA fodder. Swanson was nowhere near needing to be thrown into the deep end. The Braves decided to do it because they needed the marketing and made a conscious choice that if he failed it wouldn't kill his career. It's a gamble plain and simple based not on baseball but marketing, IMO.
 
thewupk said:
I would rather watch Swanson now and see how he handles the show instead of worrying about a Chain or Norris and what A ball player they might get for them.
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For real.. at some point you stop dumpster diving for lottery tickets as your main focus and transition into letting future pieces take their lumps in a down year, in hopes that he will be that much better next season. As far as arb clocks and super 2 status.. really doesn't matter since they will extend Swanson within a few years of that happening.

that said, the Braves did a pretty good job of Dumpster diving.. so I am ok if they keep trying that, just not as much.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Then they aren't doing their job. When you are rebuilding, you look at every option you can. It becomes a numbers game. For every Harrell, Chacin and Norris you probably have to look at 5 that don't pan out. But all three of those guys brought something back to the Braves.
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They're not doing their job if one of the reasons they avoid calling up their top prospect is so they can give guys like Lucas Harrell a chance?

Good gosh man.
 
smootness said:
They're not doing their job if one of the reasons they avoid calling up their top prospect is so they can give guys like Lucas Harrell a chance?

Good gosh man.
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It's a matter of timing. Waiting to introduce Swanson until opening day next year has several advantages with 40 man flexibility and control clock timing being two. Bringing Swanson up this year was an unnecessary gamble from baseball POV. From a marketing POV, it might make some sense but again only if he doesn't completely flop on an Aaron Blair level (which it looks like isn't going to happen).

People like yourself are happy because it gives you something to look at other than the horrid dog's breakfast that the rest of 2016 has been. I'm saying short term improvement doesn't mean anything and is likely detrimental long term. Everyone assumes that the braves will just Extent Swanson before money becomes an issue. But what if he doesn't want that? What if he is willing to go through the arby process? What if his presence on the 40 man means someone like Morris gets cut (and goes on to develop for a different organization) or someone like a young Johan Santana is skipped over in the rule five or someone like a Lucas Harrell doesn't get signed all so they can make fans like yourself feel better for 45 days.

The move isn't about building the team. It's only marginally about improving the player and that's if the gamble works out. What it's really about is marketing to people like you.
 
Swanson is the Braves starting SS. So whether it's Swanson, Aybar, or some retread the starting SS is going to be taking a spot on the 40 man roster. In the end it's not going to make a difference. If the team feels the need to target someone in the rule 5 they will simply cut someone like d'Arnaud.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
It's a matter of timing. Waiting to introduce Swanson until opening day next year has several advantages with 40 man flexibility and control clock timing being two. Bringing Swanson up this year was an unnecessary gamble from baseball POV. From a marketing POV, it might make some sense but again only if he doesn't completely flop on an Aaron Blair level (which it looks like isn't going to happen).

People like yourself are happy because it gives you something to look at other than the horrid dog's breakfast that the rest of 2016 has been. I'm saying short term improvement doesn't mean anything and is likely detrimental long term. Everyone assumes that the braves will just Extent Swanson before money becomes an issue. But what if he doesn't want that? What if he is willing to go through the arby process? What if his presence on the 40 man means someone like Morris gets cut (and goes on to develop for a different organization) or someone like a young Johan Santana is skipped over in the rule five or someone like a Lucas Harrell doesn't get signed all so they can make fans like yourself feel better for 45 days.

The move isn't about building the team. It's only marginally about improving the player and that's if the gamble works out. What it's really about is marketing to people like you.
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It's not just so I can feel better. I understand every argument you've laid out. I think it may help him next year to get a head start this year. I think 40-man roster concerns are minimal. You can play the 'what if?' game all day about everything. What if a FA decides he'd rather play in Atlanta after seeing Dansby up this year? There's basically no chance of that happening, just like there's basically no chance of us finding a Johan Santana in the Rule 5 draft. But I can say there's a chance.

Marketing to people like me? Haha goodness, you have lost your mind. I didn't need to see Dansby to get excited about him. But I know that some people do. You have to understand that Braves marketing is not about marketing to you alone.
 
50PoundHead said:
Back to Tebow. It's not particularly fair to Tebow, but some of the reaction on Twitter from some minor league players is pretty direct and not very complimentary. Here's the link from milb.com. They follow tweets all week on a lot of the things happening in the minors and the Tebow tweets are down the page a bit. I can understand the displeasure.

Link: http://milbprospective.mlblogs.com/...-raining-garbage-how-one-milb-team-cleans-up/
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It's easy to see where they are coming from. Especially the 100K bonus and being able to keep broadcasting for ESPN. It really is a joke.
 
50PoundHead said:
Back to Tebow. It's not particularly fair to Tebow, but some of the reaction on Twitter from some minor league players is pretty direct and not very complimentary. Here's the link from milb.com. They follow tweets all week on a lot of the things happening in the minors and the Tebow tweets are down the page a bit. I can understand the displeasure.

Link: http://milbprospective.mlblogs.com/...-raining-garbage-how-one-milb-team-cleans-up/
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And there you have it. The real players see this for the joke that it is.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I definitely don't like the "keep job at ESPN" part of contract.. there is work all year around to get better.
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Meh. Just means he makes a little money moonlighting in the fall on SEC Network. Doesn't matter one way or another. He can prepare for the season in Jacksonville just as well as he could anywhere else.

The chances of him learning to hit breaking stuff are about 1,000:1, anyway.

There's one job in professional sports that he is suited for and could start on day one and make a positive impact - NFL tight end. But he won't do it. More's the pity.
 
Krgrecw said:
If a player had any kind of talent whatsoever Tebow wouldn't take thier spot.
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Yah it's really a dumb argument. Signing Tebow is a nothing to lose move. He likely won't turn into anything but if he does defy the less than 1% odds, the Mets will be the one laughing. If he fails as expected... He gets let ago and doesn't hurt the team one bit. Still... Keep fighting that noble cause Horsehide because you're always the only one who's right.
 
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