Coppy keeps saying we're getting 2-3 SP

Forever Fredi said:
I wonder if Newcomb actually gets traded before being in our rotation full tie.
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One has to agree with you. I think we give him every shot possible. I don't think he's ready, but I wouldn't be surprised. I could realistically see: Teheran, Santana, Folty, Wisler, Newcomb.
 
Enscheff said:
None of these guys move the needle at all in a trade for a marquee MLB player. They all project as BP arms, with Sims being the only one that projects as a high leverage reliever. You could include all of them and wouldn't even get a call back if offered for Sale or Quintana. Just because you follow them, and like them, and write about them, and list them out in a single sentence does not make them any more valuable.

The BoSox could offer Cosart, Shawaryn, Pennington, Ysla, Jerez, Brakeman, Martin and Beeks. Who the hell are those guys? Exactly. They are fungible prospects from the back end of an equally loaded BoSox prospect list that have zero value in a trade for a player the caliber of Sale.
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I think you are far more pessimistic on some of those arms than others. I've seen several people, not just Braves fans give high reviews of Povse/Weigel this year, to say they all project as bullpen arms and mediocre ones at that, is certainly possible - but that's also only focusing on their floors and assuming none of them come close to their ceilings.
 
Weigel is being considered for top-100 lists by some people.

I'm not saying he'd make any impact for a legit MLB player, just saying.
 
I do think Simms ultimate role will be to the BP.. not a bad thing though.

Weigel and Povse just posted sub 3 ERA in AA and had break out years. They need a repeat year to gain attention however.. but I wouldn't sell low on them like some are saying..

Ellis has the stuff to get you out.. just can't control it..

Hursh found his niche in the pen.. good for him

Shancez and Mader are just lottery tickets really.
 
Preacher said:
I think you are far more pessimistic on some of those arms than others. I've seen several people, not just Braves fans give high reviews of Povse/Weigel this year, to say they all project as bullpen arms and mediocre ones at that, is certainly possible - but that's also only focusing on their floors and assuming none of them come close to their ceilings.
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I am not saying anything about the players themselves, only their value as it relates to trades.

None of those guys are moving the needle in a trade for Chris Sale, no matter how much we like to follow them in the daily MiLB threads. Those are the types of players the Braves can expect to give up to get Mac if the Yanks don't eat any of his salary.
 
Enscheff said:
I am not saying anything about the players themselves, only their value as it relates to trades.

None of those guys are moving the needle in a trade for Chris Sale, no matter how much we like to follow them in the daily MiLB threads. Those are the types of players the Braves can expect to give up to get Mac if the Yanks don't eat any of his salary.
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Mac isn't worth Weigel/borderline top 100 prospects in baseball if they aren't covering salary, come on. Maybe worth something like Anfernee Seymour or a borderline Braves top 50 prospect.

Weigel has a fastball that can hit triple digits with decent secondaries and control. He's a top ten prospect for us right now.

You don't get someone like that for a 0.5ish WAR player with a massive contract. You get equivalent value of Olivera or the trade better not happen.
 
Ventura's Stolen Bases said:
Mac isn't worth Weigel/borderline top 100 prospects in baseball if they aren't covering salary, come on. Maybe worth something like Anfernee Seymour or a borderline Braves top 50 prospect.

Weigel has a fastball that can hit triple digits with decent secondaries and control. He's a top ten prospect for us right now.

You don't get someone like that for a 0.5ish WAR player with a massive contract. You get equivalent value of Olivera or the trade better not happen.
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Rico threw out a list of names as "the other guys". Sorry I didn't pick it apart name by name.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Everyone wanting Sale or Archer or Gray seems to forget that the Braves will have to compete with others who will want those assets as well. And many of those other teams will be in much better positions to compete for pennants than the Braves truly are right now. Teams like Boston, LAD, Toronto, Baltimore, NYY, Cle, Det, Sea, Tex, Hou, Was, NYM, Cubs, Cards, Colo all are in a better position to compete in 2017 than the Braves and will be looking to improve their odds. Not all those teams will be primarily looking for pitching and not all could out-bid the Braves but I could easily see teams like Boston, LAD, SEA, HOU and COL being all over high end pitching should it become available. Even teams like Baltimore that the Braves could clearly "out-prospect" may be willing to move significant ML talent to bring back a high end pitcher as an example.

So, while the Braves might be able to acquire a Sale or Archer or Gray, chances are they would have to over pay as opposed to finding a bargain.
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I'm ready to pay full retail (in prospects) for a high end starter. Then sign a mid-rotation guy.
 
Not much in the FA market.

But probably one veteran and one via trade.

Dont think it will be a huge name in the trade.
 
Ventura's Stolen Bases said:
Mac isn't worth Weigel/borderline top 100 prospects in baseball if they aren't covering salary, come on. Maybe worth something like Anfernee Seymour or a borderline Braves top 50 prospect.

Weigel has a fastball that can hit triple digits with decent secondaries and control. He's a top ten prospect for us right now.

You don't get someone like that for a 0.5ish WAR player with a massive contract. You get equivalent value of Olivera or the trade better not happen.
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i think an average MLB hitter with still pretty good defensive skills at the catcher position isn't worth prospects who most likely will probably be never heard from again.

The Yankees have no need to trade him for nothing just to save money.
 
Southcack77 said:
i think an average MLB hitter with still pretty good defensive skills at the catcher position isn't worth prospects who most likely will probably be never heard from again.

The Yankees have no need to trade him for nothing just to save money.
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Actually, they do. They are in a position where he's worth more virtually anywhere else than he is to them. So they really do need to move him in order to get max value for him. They could still get a few clubs bidding on him.

It's going to be quite a poker game. We and others are going to have to trust our valuations and not bid against ourselves.
 
Enscheff said:
Rico threw out a list of names as "the other guys". Sorry I didn't pick it apart name by name.
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I am as well. It would give you so many more opportunities to belittle my opinion. I don't get nearly the number of personal attacks some guys on this board get; it makes me feel appreciate that at least someone is reading my posts.

Please, pick it apart, name by name. Start your own thread.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Actually, they do. They are in a position where he's worth more virtually anywhere else than he is to them. So they really do need to move him in order to get max value for him. They could still get a few clubs bidding on him.

It's going to be quite a poker game. We and others are going to have to trust our valuations and not bid against ourselves.
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Several people are suggesting that the Yankees should pay Atlanta to take him off their hands and accept a non-prospect.

I doubt that is how they look at it. Worst case scenario, they have an extremely solid backup catcher, who can DH and play 1B - hitting from the left side - who isn't nothing but a positive clubhouse guy. He's expensive, but it is the Yankees.

I think the evidence suggests so far that the Yankees consider him more valuable to their team than the money savings.
 
I will like Jason Castro and platoon him with Tyler Flowers. I honestly used to like Brian McCann but now is old and his contract is huge. Don't worth to pay that amount of money.
 
Southcack77 said:
Several people are suggesting that the Yankees should pay Atlanta to take him off their hands and accept a non-prospect.

I doubt that is how they look at it. Worst case scenario, they have an extremely solid backup catcher, who can DH and play 1B - hitting from the left side - who isn't nothing but a positive clubhouse guy. He's expensive, but it is the Yankees.

I think the evidence suggests so far that the Yankees consider him more valuable to their team than the money savings.
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I'm mainly saying it wouldn't be a good trade for us to trade a decently performing/promising guy for him without salary relief. I realize that the Yankees won't accept a win-win type trade for McCann because they have too much money, so they don't see his contract as a negative, but his full contract would be a negative for us.

If we want to trade a smaller market team for their second/third backup catcher, I think the demands would be more reasonable.

I also would prefer Castro, for what it's worth.
 
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