Coppy keeps saying we're getting 2-3 SP

I think Archer and Gray are conceivable but not likely. Archer less likely because his asking price would be higher. Gray possible, but I still don't think they go after him. Although he would be a nice piece to add to our team. Very good #2/3 type guy that has a reduced price based on this years performance.. but the As are not going to just give him away. He is 26/cheap and under control until what 2019 or 2020...They would just assume to let him bounce back while they have him over just giving him away.
 
I'd say this time next year we will know what we have in Allard, Newcomb, Soroka, Touki, Fried, and a few others and we will be able to gauge if they will be an ace or if we should trade for one. Right now I wouldn't trade any of them bc we aren't ready to compete for the playoffs. Come this time next year when everybody is a lot of closer is when I feel we will start moving some to get the big bat and ace we need to move forward.
 
I would like to see a trade for Ervin Santana, shouldn't take a ton considering the Twins are terrible. Then sign Bartolo Colon. Two inning eaters who put up a tolerable era. I might even consider Rich Hill for 2 years or less.

We have a ton of money to spend so I don't mind overspending some for short term deals rather than let that money go to Liberty's profits. If we could get Hill for 2 years 30 million or 3 years 30 million I might consider it in part because we need a lefty in the rotation. This would be like adding 2.5 starters overall.
 
smootness said:
Sure we can afford it, in that we have enough prospects to get it done. But we absolutely can not afford it, in the sense that we can get those guys and still love the way our future looks.

I just can't emphasize enough how dumb I think that would be for us to do.
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I agree.

The "trade for Sale, etc." mentality is why the idea of "reload" vs "rebuild" is so scary to me.

Players, FO and fans always want to win now, win today, win forever! And the temptation to play for today and let next week take care of itself is always there. But that's how the Braves got into the need for a rebuild in the first place.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I agree.

The "trade for Sale, etc." mentality is why the idea of "reload" vs "rebuild" is so scary to me.
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You keep posting about reload. They haven't reloaded since Marcus Giles was patrolling 2nd base. The Marlins went from expansion in '93 to WS champs in '97. It's time to show that they're serious. Re-signing Jim Johnson just doesn't signal "major contender" status from here. So you don't have much to worry about for at least another year.
 
And that same idiot said the Braves were going to compete this season. Amazing you guys believe everything that clown says.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think the Braves go with:

Jorge de la Rosa (R)

Jamie Garcia (L) - if he doesn't get the QO, Jon Niese if Garcia gets the QO

Charlie Morton (R) if option isn't picked up, Bud Norris or Josh Collmenter otherwise.

Teheran, Garcia, Folty, de la Rosa, Morton

or

Teheran, Folty, de la Rosa, Niese, Norris

I think Wisler and Blair start back at AAA
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Christ, that's awful.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I agree.

The "trade for Sale, etc." mentality is why the idea of "reload" vs "rebuild" is so scary to me.

Players, FO and fans always want to win now, win today, win forever! And the temptation to play for today and let next week take care of itself is always there. But that's how the Braves got into the need for a rebuild in the first place.
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While I understand the mentality of "keeping your powder dry," you've now successfully restocked your farm, which exists for TWO reasons - provide players for the future and provide capital for trades to provide players.

I think you can acquire one TOR guy on the Archer order without gutting the system. Even if you gave TB 3 pitching prospects you've got nine left.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I think Archer and Gray are conceivable but not likely. Archer less likely because his asking price would be higher. Gray possible, but I still don't think they go after him. Although he would be a nice piece to add to our team. Very good #2/3 type guy that has a reduced price based on this years performance.. but the As are not going to just give him away. He is 26/cheap and under control until what 2019 or 2020...They would just assume to let him bounce back while they have him over just giving him away.
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The A's were a giant bucket of suck this year. You better believe they'll be open for business. Sonny kind of reminds me of Huddy in a lot of ways, though not quite as accomplished. Remember what we paid there? King's ransom in "prospects."

Point is, I prefer the Archer/Gray idea. Coppy has been pretty aggressive to this point in his deals. If he's going to go get two pitchers to improve the rotation, I hope it's guys like that rather than Cashner and Bud Norris. I'd much rather audition the guys already in the system rather than sign a bunch of flotsam.
 
Hudson2 said:
I'd say this time next year we will know what we have in Allard, Newcomb, Soroka, Touki, Fried, and a few others and we will be able to gauge if they will be an ace or if we should trade for one. Right now I wouldn't trade any of them bc we aren't ready to compete for the playoffs. Come this time next year when everybody is a lot of closer is when I feel we will start moving some to get the big bat and ace we need to move forward.
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But look at the guys you didn't mention -- Sanchez, Weigel, Sims, Hursh, Ellis, Povse, Mader -- there's so much more there than we've ever been accustomed. With the two lists together, imagine what any three of these guys could bring if, say, it was one off your list and two off mine.
 
rico43 said:
But look at the guys you didn't mention -- Sanchez, Weigel, Sims, Hursh, Ellis, Povse, Mader -- there's so much more there than we've ever been accustomed. With the two lists together, imagine what any three of these guys could bring if, say, it was one off your list and two off mine.
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There is real value in most of the guys you listed, but they're still not the types who will be looked at as significant return in a deal for a good young major leaguer. Something like Newcomb/Weigel/Mader is a good package, but it's still definitely not enough to get you somebody like Archer.
 
rico43 said:
But look at the guys you didn't mention -- Sanchez, Weigel, Sims, Hursh, Ellis, Povse, Mader -- there's so much more there than we've ever been accustomed. With the two lists together, imagine what any three of these guys could bring if, say, it was one off your list and two off mine.
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To get a TOR starter, its's more like two off his plus a position prospect.

Your list really is the group of throw-ins as far as trade value goes, IMO. Some guys that people might like as flyers (though Hursh?). Some of them don't even project as fifth starters.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
And that same idiot said the Braves were going to compete this season. Amazing you guys believe everything that clown says.
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Which GMs said their team was going to suck before the season started? They are trying to sell tickets. You don't sell tickets by saying your team sucks
 
Southcack77 said:
To get a TOR starter, its's more like two off his plus a position prospect.

Your list really is the group of throw-ins as far as trade value goes, IMO. Some guys that people might like as flyers (though Hursh?). Some of them don't even project as fifth starters.
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Weigel and Povse are not throw in or flyers. Those are solid pitching prospects coming off good seasons who could be in a major league rotation at some point next year. That holds a lot of value.
 
Everyone wanting Sale or Archer or Gray seems to forget that the Braves will have to compete with others who will want those assets as well. And many of those other teams will be in much better positions to compete for pennants than the Braves truly are right now. Teams like Boston, LAD, Toronto, Baltimore, NYY, Cle, Det, Sea, Tex, Hou, Was, NYM, Cubs, Cards, Colo all are in a better position to compete in 2017 than the Braves and will be looking to improve their odds. Not all those teams will be primarily looking for pitching and not all could out-bid the Braves but I could easily see teams like Boston, LAD, SEA, HOU and COL being all over high end pitching should it become available. Even teams like Baltimore that the Braves could clearly "out-prospect" may be willing to move significant ML talent to bring back a high end pitcher as an example.

So, while the Braves might be able to acquire a Sale or Archer or Gray, chances are they would have to over pay as opposed to finding a bargain.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Everyone wanting Sale or Archer or Gray seems to forget that the Braves will have to compete with others who will want those assets as well. And many of those other teams will be in much better positions to compete for pennants than the Braves truly are right now. Teams like Boston, LAD, Toronto, Baltimore, NYY, Cle, Det, Sea, Tex, Hou, Was, NYM, Cubs, Cards, Colo all are in a better position to compete in 2017 than the Braves and will be looking to improve their odds. Not all those teams will be primarily looking for pitching and not all could out-bid the Braves but I could easily see teams like Boston, LAD, SEA, HOU and COL being all over high end pitching should it become available. Even teams like Baltimore that the Braves could clearly "out-prospect" may be willing to move significant ML talent to bring back a high end pitcher as an example.

So, while the Braves might be able to acquire a Sale or Archer or Gray, chances are they would have to over pay as opposed to finding a bargain.
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I'll be hoping for a non-QO guy and a mid-level trade. I think the bidding on Sale, Archer, and maybe Gray is going to get too rich for my blood. I don't advocate holding on to prospects at the expense of the big club, provided the big club is a sure bet to contend. I would rather they let the prospects go one more year to figure out what their development arc before they are moved. If we're in it at the deadline, then make some moves, but until then, fill in behind Teheran and Foltynewicz and hope for the best.
 
rico43 said:
But look at the guys you didn't mention -- Sanchez, Weigel, Sims, Hursh, Ellis, Povse, Mader -- there's so much more there than we've ever been accustomed. With the two lists together, imagine what any three of these guys could bring if, say, it was one off your list and two off mine.
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None of these guys move the needle at all in a trade for a marquee MLB player. They all project as BP arms, with Sims being the only one that projects as a high leverage reliever. You could include all of them and wouldn't even get a call back if offered for Sale or Quintana. Just because you follow them, and like them, and write about them, and list them out in a single sentence does not make them any more valuable.

The BoSox could offer Cosart, Shawaryn, Pennington, Ysla, Jerez, Brakeman, Martin and Beeks. Who the hell are those guys? Exactly. They are fungible prospects from the back end of an equally loaded BoSox prospect list that have zero value in a trade for a player the caliber of Sale.
 
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