2017 Opening Day Roster Taking Shape

The White Sox would've taken Joe Musgrove plus righty Francis Martes and outfielder Kyle Tucker from Houston. We could match or top that easy IMO. But if we included any of Acuna, Albies or Fried and/or worse more than one, that would certainly top the Houston ask that Houston rejected. I say that not so much on ranking as how I view the potential of all names involved. I am not that high on Kyle Tucker anymore than I was his brother. I am very high on Acuna, Albies and Fried. That said, I would do a package around Newcomb and two others not named Albies and Fried depending on the two names.

JFYI, Jason Martinez said in his latest MLBTR chat that if so that he expects Folty to be included and Jose Quintana taking his spot in the rotation.
 
That would be unfortunate as Folty would look really nice as a #3. Even though the asking price seems to be reducing with fewer potential suitors, it's still going to cost something!
 
I really like Quintana and he would make me win my bet against Enscheff... but if we are giving up Folty, I'd rather just swallow my pride and still lose the bet. Not totally against it, I just hate giving up Foltz with his stuff if he's actually figuring it out. Folty plus Acuna... nope
 
zbhargrove said:
I really like Quintana and he would make me win my bet against Enscheff... but if we are giving up Folty, I'd rather just swallow my pride and still lose the bet. Not totally against it, I just hate giving up Foltz with his stuff if he's actually figuring it out. Folty plus Acuna... nope
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I wouldn't do Folty plus Acuna either and would be surprised if the Braves included Folty. However, I would do a package of Folty, Newcomb and one other lesser name than both. Say Wisler for example if another pitcher. I'd do that because Quintana would likely put up even better numbers in the NL. That said, I still cannot picture the Braves including Folty. I could see them including Fried before him to be honest.
 
Why in the world would we be "in" on Quintana...he is not even an ace. If we were going to give up prospects, then it should have been on Sale. Either way, we are not in a position to contend. One ace or a great #2 won't make the difference because we need so much help.

If you are that one player away....sure....pull the trigger. Right now, those names you throw around like Newcomb, could make you SICK if he devolopes into a TOR or a ace.

Fact of the matter, it's too early for us to trade away pitchers that we aren't sure about that have that high of a ceiling. Newcomb's value (for example), is a little down right now...mainly because of prospect fatigue. WAY wrong time to give him up.

Dang, you guys need to chill out and let these guys develope. We will have the depth when the time is right to get any peice we need. Right now....we are NOT one pitcher away. If we had the Red Sox or Nationals roster....yes!!....pull the trigger. We don't .

Hate to break it to you, but if it's done right...that time will be 2019-2020. Making big trades for a handful of great players is lunacy. We built a great farm by doing that and a great farm can be torn down with those type trades just as fast.
 
TheBravos said:
Why in the world would we be "in" on Quintana...he is not even an ace. If we were going to give up prospects, then it should have been on Sale. Either way, we are not in a position to contend. One ace or a great #2 won't make the difference because we need so much help.

If you are that one player away....sure....pull the trigger. Right now, those names you throw around like Newcomb, could make you SICK if he devolopes into a TOR or a ace.

Fact of the matter, it's too early for us to trade away pitchers that we aren't sure about that have that high of a ceiling. Newcomb's value (for example), is a little down right now...mainly because of prospect fatigue. WAY wrong time to give him up.

Dang, you guys need to chill out and let these guys develope. We will have the depth when the time is right to get any peice we need. Right now....we are NOT one pitcher away. If we had the Red Sox or Nationals roster....yes!!....pull the trigger. We don't .

Hate to break it to you, but if it's done right...that time will be 2019-2020. Making big trades for a handful of great players is lunacy. We built a great farm by doing that and a great farm can be torn down with those type trades just as fast.
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If you look at Quintana's numbers over the last 3 years, he most certainly is an ace. He may have been quiet about it and in Sale's shadow, but his peripherals have been flat out great. We need to chill? We are simply responding to rumors, and most of us are saying we wouldn't want to do it if it involves rumored players. So, not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
 
zbhargrove said:
If you look at Quintana's numbers over the last 3 years, he most certainly is an ace. He may have been quiet about it and in Sale's shadow, but his peripherals have been flat out great. We need to chill? We are simply responding to rumors, and most of us are saying we wouldn't want to do it if it involves rumored players. So, not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

I'm not trying to start anything with anyone, and I know you are just discussing and brainstorming.

Quintana is a great pitcher , but we could end up giving THREE Quintana type (or better) pitchers to get him. We aren't even that close to contending. That's all I'm saying. The timing is wrong. He would pitch his best years while we were STILL in a rebuild and would be a free agent at the time we could realistically be contenders.

He doesn't put us over top...not even close. If you are going to give up highly rated prospects (like the Red Sox did to nab Sale), that player needs to be the difference maker. Sale could very well be that player for them. With us, we have so many holes right now....most think we won't even have a winning record. So what, we mortgage our future to "maybe" climb up to the .500 range??

All I am saying, is that we have built a great farm. We no doubt have a "Quintana +" in our system. We haven't had the time to let them mature in order to find the one or ones that are stars. IF we are patient, we have the foundation moving forward to contend for over a decade EVEN with a limited budget.

The "win now" mentality always comes at great cost. It "can" pay off if you are close like the Cubs. It can also KILL you If a team gives up multiple high prospects for one star and still has too many holes to fill (see the Padres, Diamondbacks, and a lengthy list from there).

I just don't want to go thru this process again for a LONG time. That's all.
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TheBravos said:
zbhargrove said:
If you look at Quintana's numbers over the last 3 years, he most certainly is an ace. He may have been quiet about it and in Sale's shadow, but his peripherals have been flat out great. We need to chill? We are simply responding to rumors, and most of us are saying we wouldn't want to do it if it involves rumored players. So, not exactly sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

I'm not trying to start anything with anyone, and I know you are just discussing and brainstorming.

Quintana is a great pitcher , but we could end up giving THREE Quintana type (or better) pitchers to get him. We aren't even that close to contending. That's all I'm saying. The timing is wrong. He would pitch his best years while we were STILL in a rebuild and would be a free agent at the time we could realistically be contenders.

He doesn't put us over top...not even close. If you are going to give up highly rated prospects (like the Red Sox did to nab Sale), that player needs to be the difference maker. Sale could very well be that player for them. With us, we have so many holes right now....most think we won't even have a winning record. So what, we mortgage our future to "maybe" climb up to the .500 range??

All I am saying, is that we have built a great farm. We no doubt have a "Quintana +" in our system. We haven't had the time to let them mature in order to find the one or ones that are stars. IF we are patient, we have the foundation moving forward to contend for over a decade EVEN with a limited budget.

The "win now" mentality always comes at great cost. It "can" pay off if you are close like the Cubs. It can also KILL you If a team gives up multiple high prospects for one star and still has too many holes to fill (see the Padres, Diamondbacks, and a lengthy list from there).

I just don't want to go thru this process again for a LONG time. That's all.
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Some would call this post hopeless optimism, but I have to agree with it. Quintana would probably be better than Folty this year, but there's probably a 25% chance that he won't. Add in the possibilities of the prospects that would have to go with him, and it's just not worth it.
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jimsnores said:
TheBravos said:
Some would call this post hopeless optimism, but I have to agree with it. Quintana would probably be better than Folty this year, but there's probably a 25% chance that he won't. Add in the possibilities of the prospects that would have to go with him, and it's just not worth it.
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There is a non zero chance that Folty is better than Q this year. I wouldn't put that anywhere near 25% though.
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I don't think any scenario which includes Folty or Fried is a net plus other than this year where we won't sniff .500 which is a huge waste. Only do this deal if we are knocking on the door of a WS contender.
 
Tapate50 said:
I don't think any scenario which includes Folty or Fried is a net plus other than this year where we won't sniff .500 which is a huge waste. Only do this deal if we are knocking on the door of a WS contender.
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It's an improvement but doesn't get us to where we need to be. Any move for Q shouldn't involve a player either on the MLB team or expected to be on it this year.
 
It seems to me the White Sox have in mind "winning" any trade involving Quintana by a similar magnitude that they won the trades for Eaton and Sale. I don't think a trade of that sort makes sense for any team (not even the gnats and Red Sox). It comes closer to making sense for those types of teams than a team like us that has been rebuilding. But it doesn't make sense imo even for those teams. The White Sox did very well in those two trades and are waiting for a similar bid for Quintana. They have been very smart. We don't want to make trades with smart, disciplined front offices.
 
It only takes 1 GM to get desperate. What do A ball prospects mean to a GM trying to save his job. You never know what prospect rich team has a surprisingly good first half and gets world series dreams.
 
Braves1976 said:
The White Sox would've taken Joe Musgrove plus righty Francis Martes and outfielder Kyle Tucker from Houston. We could match or top that easy IMO. But if we included any of Acuna, Albies or Fried and/or worse more than one, that would certainly top the Houston ask that Houston rejected. I say that not so much on ranking as how I view the potential of all names involved. I am not that high on Kyle Tucker anymore than I was his brother. I am very high on Acuna, Albies and Fried. That said, I would do a package around Newcomb and two others not named Albies and Fried depending on the two names.

JFYI, Jason Martinez said in his latest MLBTR chat that if so that he expects Folty to be included and Jose Quintana taking his spot in the rotation.
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We could basically beat any package centered around prospects that could be offered by any other team for anyone.

We just shouldn't.
 
nsacpi said:
It seems to me the White Sox have in mind "winning" any trade involving Quintana by a similar magnitude that they won the trades for Eaton and Sale. I don't think a trade of that sort makes sense for any team (not even the gnats and Red Sox). It comes closer to making sense for those types of teams than a team like us that has been rebuilding. But it doesn't make sense imo even for those teams. The White Sox did very well in those two trades and are waiting for a similar bid for Quintana. They have been very smart. We don't want to make trades with smart, disciplined front offices.
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Well, of course, it's no longer news that every team with a marquee pitcher to offer is looking for the next Shelby Miller deal. So, why wouldn't they ask for Dansby? They just aren't going to get him. With the potential suitors dropping down to two, Coppy's waiting game may prove to pay dividends.
 
TheBravos said:
I'm not trying to start anything with anyone, and I know you are just discussing and brainstorming.

Quintana is a great pitcher , but we could end up giving THREE Quintana type (or better) pitchers to get him. We aren't even that close to contending. That's all I'm saying. The timing is wrong. He would pitch his best years while we were STILL in a rebuild and would be a free agent at the time we could realistically be contenders.

He doesn't put us over top...not even close. If you are going to give up highly rated prospects (like the Red Sox did to nab Sale), that player needs to be the difference maker. Sale could very well be that player for them. With us, we have so many holes right now....most think we won't even have a winning record. So what, we mortgage our future to "maybe" climb up to the .500 range??

All I am saying, is that we have built a great farm. We no doubt have a "Quintana +" in our system. We haven't had the time to let them mature in order to find the one or ones that are stars. IF we are patient, we have the foundation moving forward to contend for over a decade EVEN with a limited budget.

The "win now" mentality always comes at great cost. It "can" pay off if you are close like the Cubs. It can also KILL you If a team gives up multiple high prospects for one star and still has too many holes to fill (see the Padres, Diamondbacks, and a lengthy list from there).

I just don't want to go thru this process again for a LONG time. That's all.
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Nobody here knows what names have been discussed. So, b4 anybody freaks out over potential "future Quintanas," then we need to take a step back. This used to happen all the time at Scout too. People would flip out over any prospect who was traded. Some of that was Shanks, who promoted the concept that every Braves prospect had to be considered potentially great. If we look at the history, Schuerholz was rarely burned in trading pitchers. Of those, Jason Schmidt emerged but not with the team he was traded to and value was gotten in return.

As for not having to go through this process again...relax! It's not as if you've had vital organs surgically removed. The Braves haven't gone through a full scale rebuild in over a quarter century. You'll live.

We have so many experts here on statistics, regurgitating what they read over at Fangraphs. Yet, nobody wants to crunch the actual numbers on his own. By all means, use historical data as a point of reference. As for the Top 30...well, yeah, it's IMPRESSIVE. Realistically, we could break that down. A certain percentage of them have real potential to become everyday impact players: Maitan, Acuna, Peterson, Riley and amazing assortment of pitchers at the lower levels. Then there are 2ndary prospects and the rest. Some of them will become regular MLBers. A few might even become stars. Then some will get hurt. Some will flame out along the way. Some will get traded in attempt to address other needs. It's simply how the system works.

Meantime, some of the hype is simply propaganda to attract attention. If we had an internet message board during the late 80's rebuild, and in ST '91, it came up that C prospect, Jimmy Kremers, was getting traded to the Expos (division rival! - another cause for meltdown!) there would've been a near riot. Truth be told, they had me believing that he was great catching prospect. His career didn't turn out that way.
 
anyone seen EOF's throw this spring? is his stuff that good or is he mopping up on scrubs? Just like you can shrug off bad performances in spring, you can do so equally for good. Is he for real or just a spring mirage.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
anyone seen EOF's throw this spring? is his stuff that good or is he mopping up on scrubs? Just like you can shrug off bad performances in spring, you can do so equally for good. Is he for real or just a spring mirage.
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I asked same thing in thread about games. He couldn't get out A ball hitters last season, so obviously he's better... just not sure why
 
bravesfanMatt said:
anyone seen EOF's throw this spring? is his stuff that good or is he mopping up on scrubs? Just like you can shrug off bad performances in spring, you can do so equally for good. Is he for real or just a spring mirage.
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It would be a big plus if he could contribute.
 
smootness said:
We could basically beat any package centered around prospects that could be offered by any other team for anyone.

We just shouldn't.
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While I am very much against trying to short circuit the rebuild, I could see a Q trade under the right circumstances such as the Sox deciding to take a little less if they can shed some payroll.

If they would do a Sheilds, Frazier, Quintana deal for something like Folty, Newcomb, Anderson and Demeritte plus some ML filler such as 3B Garcia and 2B Peterson, I might do it.

Sheilds has negative value because of his contract and Frazier has little value because of his K's, contract and whiffs, so if they were paired with Q to move their salary, they would diminish any potential talent return.

2017 rotation could be: Q, Teheran, Garcia, Colon, Dickey and Sheilds (one of the last four at least are likely to be disabled at any time during the year), then Garcia, Colon and Dickey go away after 2017 leaving Sheilds as the 5 and the two other spots being filled internally.

Frazier starts at 3B and is either flipped at the deadline for what they can get or goes as a FA after 2017. He hits 6th after: Inciarte, Swanson, Freeman, Kemp, Markakis, Frazier, Phillips, Flowers

A talent package of Folty, Newcomb, Anderson, Demeritte is pretty far below the ask but still not bad, especially when the money is figured in. And from a Braves point of view, it really doesn't detract that much from a long term view of the rebuild.
 
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