GDT: 3/29/18 - Atlanta Braves vs. Philthies (ITS OPENING DAYYYYY)

The ability of the bullpen doesn't go into a managerial decision or the probalistic outcomes of an analysis?
Probalistic outcomes aren't the only things that go into in-game managerial decisions, especially with regards to bullpen management and especially with an old school guy like Snit. It's an imperfect art, at best, and you may as well get used to it.

There's just getting a guy some work who needs to throw regularly.
There's trying to create roles and a fairly consistent pattern.
There's giving guys a little more or a little less responsibility or stress for their own development.
There's riding some guys' hot streaks or protecting others who might be struggling a little.
There's showing a stuggling pitcher his manager still believes in him.

These and so many other considerations are going to often be chosen over the "so called" best outcome choice. Simply calling every managerial move you don't agree with 'stupid' seems like an oversimplification of what's actually going on.
 
And a guy cruising with 68 pitches should never have been taken out

Right. Because we've never seen a guy cruising along the 3rd time through the order with no bullpen warming up and precedes to give up 2-3 runs in a quick span.
 
Right. Because we've never seen a guy cruising along the 3rd time through the order with no bullpen warming up and precedes to give up 2-3 runs in a quick span.

Again, there was no reason to think Nola was going to give up runs. He's a young guy who is building his norm. He very well could have given up runs but that is not the spot to take him out.
 
Again, there was no reason to think Nola was going to give up runs. He's a young guy who is building his norm. He very well could have given up runs but that is not the spot to take him out.

Except for all the other times it's happened in his career.
 
Remember when I said Snit deserves another chance to prove he isn’t an idiot now that he has an analytical FO feeding him info? Well, first game of the season he proves yet again he doesn’t know how to manage a BP properly.

Albies hit that ball out with a swing that shows he may have the power we are hoping makes him a 5+ win player. That was impressive.

The Braves didn’t sell out opening day. Those thinking the Braves will have higher attendance than last year should probably reconsider their position on the subject.

I would say it is very unlikely the Braves have higher attendance this year unless they are squarely in the playoff chase and the youngsters are playing great. IF they are pretty good, people will come.
 
So teams should ignore analytics, and instead rely on your crystal ball?

I am so glad this type of stupidity has been (supposedly) purged from the organization. Now if we could just purge it from these comments we would really be onto something.

Dude you are harsh. Seriously.
 
His entire career? And the fact it routinely happens to all major league starters?

His entire career that covers how many innings exactly? Stop skirting around the question because you know you're making decisions on ridiculously small sample sizes. Something that you are vehemently against and have been so since I've known you on these boards.
 
Remember when I said Snit deserves another chance to prove he isn’t an idiot now that he has an analytical FO feeding him info? Well, first game of the season he proves yet again he doesn’t know how to manage a BP properly.

Albies hit that ball out with a swing that shows he may have the power we are hoping makes him a 5+ win player. That was impressive.

The Braves didn’t sell out opening day. Those thinking the Braves will have higher attendance than last year should probably reconsider their position on the subject.

Didn't watch the game, but saw empty seats on the highlight reel. Very troubling sign.

Albies may be one of those hitters whose swing mechanics allow him to adjust on the pitch very effectively, which could lead to both a solid contact rate with power beyond what one would think his physical attributes would produce.
 
I don't know the attendance numbers but having Albies and Acuna in the lineup is going to make me watch more games.
 
His entire career that covers how many innings exactly? Stop skirting around the question because you know you're making decisions on ridiculously small sample sizes. Something that you are vehemently against and have been so since I've known you on these boards.

What are you talking about? What is small about a players entire career and the fact this happens to the entirety of major league baseball? Pitchers get worse the 3rd time through the order. This isn't new.
 
I have some questions about the viability of a heavy bullpen strategy.

The first is very few teams have the depth to pull it off and I don't think the Phillies are one of them. My impression is their pen has been a mess without a whole lot of consistency and they've never been able to settle the back end for long, much less lock down the other roles. I'd question whether the Phillies are best served by adding to the number of bullpen players who determine the outcome of a given game.

Given the limitations of roster and the availability of quality arms, I also don't think its a particularly good idea to extend your bullpen unnecessarily. If you have a big lead and you have a starter who hasn't thrown many pitches and is cruising along, optimizing the season stress load on arms and lowering your exposure to weaker bullpen arms may well work out better than some kind of raw math score might suggest.

....

I would actually love to see some data stratified by ERA+ or FIP or something that shows the differing performances between "very good" "good" "average" and "below average" pitchers third time through the order.

My guess is that all groups would decline somewhat, but that decline would be much more pronounced among the lower end groups than in the top end groups. I think there would be more examples of the lower groups going through the order a third time than is perhaps implied, because in my experience most clubs will run a starter out there until the pitch counts get right or the player gets himself into trouble.

I'd be interested to see if the blowouts from the bottom end pitchers distort the data in general. And then I'd be interested to see how much worse the top end pitchers are third time through the order and how much of that is skewed towards particularly bad innings. and then maybe think about whether the third time through the order with an opening day starter might still be a better play than your sixth inning receiver in a pretty bad pen. You don't want want to be pinch hitting Homer for Straw to take advantage of that lefty/righty matchup.

......

Finally, Aaron Nola is a little young to have a book. he's not been up that long, he's had arm problems that he rehabbed rather than had surgery on, and he came up with developing secondary options. It's probably not a bad day to let him try and reach a little bit when his pitch counts are down and he has a big lead. While that's perhaps the reason they didn't pinch hit for him in the preceding half inning, I thought the hook was probably too early and as a result they turned the game over to a shaky pen that blew the game.

There is small sample size all around here though.

All data is local.
 
What are you talking about? What is small about a players entire career and the fact this happens to the entirety of major league baseball? Pitchers get worse the 3rd time through the order. This isn't new.

But how much worse is the question and up 5 when dominating in the 6th inning with 68 pitches calls for more inputs into the decision.

And again, you know it's a small sample. Something you would chastise almost anyone about in the past.
 
But how much worse is the question and up 5 when dominating in the 6th inning with 68 pitches calls for more inputs into the decision.

And again, you know it's a small sample. Something you would chastise almost anyone about in the past.

When it's a common league wide issue I don't consider it a small sample size. A small sample size is getting excited about Jace Peterson hitting well for a month.

Again last year he was a sub 3 ERA pitcher through the order the first two times. Through the 3rd it was over 5. That tells me he commonly would go through the order the 3rd time and give up a couple of runs and then get taken out. The same thing that happens to a lot of pitchers. Some teams are actively trying to avoid that situation.
 
And that could have been one or two innings that changed those numbers third time through. That's what you want to base your decision on?
 
Julio averaged 89 with his fastball. He's a junk baller now. Can't believe we didn't extract value from him by trading him.
 
And that could have been one or two innings that changed those numbers third time through. That's what you want to base your decision on?

Yeah I'm sure it was just a couple of times. So you don't think pitchers get worse the 3rd time through the order on the reg?
 
Julio averaged 89 with his fastball. He's a junk baller now. Can't believe we didn't extract value from him by trading him.

The team was supposed to contend starting last year and we needed that cheap veteran presence. Or something like that.
 
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