Around Baseball Offseason Edition - Derek Jeter will retire at seasons end

nsacpi said:
Btw, wasn't there a consensus a year ago that the Gnats did very well on the Dennard Span trade. These things often move in a way that upends the initial consensus.
Click to expand...

Yes, he did play well.

GG defense, and in the 2nd half, he hit very well.

I dont know how Meyer did for the Twins though.
 
nsacpi said:
I wouldn't give much weight to whether a team won a world series in judging a transaction. Suppose Shields blows out his arm and KC wins the world series? Good trade or not. Absurd to given any weight to the team's winning a world series in that case. Was the Hanrahan or Andrew Bailey trade a good one for the Red Sox? They won the world series after all.

Was the Zito signing a good one for the Giants. The won two world series with him.
Click to expand...

I mean, you tell me -- what is the ultimate goal for a major league baseball team? From my point of view, it's winning. Contention cures many ills; it can rejuvenate a fan base (therefore leading to an influx of additional streams of revenue, not just in the form of ticket sales, but also in increased leverage in media and marketing negotiations,) acts as useful bait to free agents, helps with retention of in-house talent, and as a bit of a double-edged sword, forces management to tend towards aggression over complacency in the day to day operations of a club.
 
gilesfan said:
How are you coming to the conclusion that Ray is a top 3 prospect for the Nats? Based on John Sickels last year he wasn't ranked in the top 20. I actually think Sickels was low on him and BA had him as the 5th best. I think he's a solid C+ type prospect, not anywhere close to sniffing a top 100 list.
Click to expand...

BA had him 5th best prospect, 3rd best pitcher.
 
Hawk said:
I mean, you tell me -- what is the ultimate goal for a major league baseball team? From my point of view, it's winning. Contention cures many ills; it can rejuvenate a fan base (therefore leading to an influx of additional streams of revenue, not just in the form of ticket sales, but also in increased leverage in media and marketing negotiations,) acts as useful bait to free agents, helps with retention of in-house talent, and as a bit of a double-edged sword, forces management to tend towards aggression over complacency in the day to day operations of a club.
Click to expand...

I agree that winning is the ultimate goal. But you can win in spite of making some stupid moves. Is that such a radical position to take?

So was the Zito signing a smart move? Enquiring minds want to know.
 
nsacpi said:
I agree that winning is the ultimate goal. But you can win in spite of making some stupid moves. Is that such a radical position to take?
Click to expand...

Well, that is kind of the point that I was trying to make. Sorry if it fell flat. Sometimes making a stupid move is a necessary evil?

You mentioned Zito -- an interesting case -- because there's absolutely zero doubt that statistically speaking, his value was almost negative to the Giants throughout his monstrosity of a contract. BUT, putting his numbers aside for a moment, it's also worth looking at the other components of Zito (as both a player and a person) that might have provided some (perhaps negligible) value to San Francisco. They stole him from Oakland, which accounted for a great deal of the overpay, winning them points in the whole intra-city rivalry thing. The guy is prototypically Californian (surf first, think later,) and was a model citizen during his tenure with the team. He represented San Francisco's willingness to spend, and their desire to win. Yeah, he may have tied up money that could have been better spent elsewhere, but it never seemed as though the Giants shopped him agressively or were particularly hamstrung by his contract. And they won. Twice. Helps to wash away that bitter taste (which maybe to them was never that bitter to begin with?) I don't know for sure, but it's food for thought.
 
It's interesting that literally as we discuss this, I read that Kansas City has apparently offered Carlos Beltran 3 years, $48 million.
 
Hawk said:
Well, that is kind of the point that I was trying to make. Sorry if it fell flat. Sometimes making a stupid move is a necessary evil?

You mentioned Zito -- an interesting case -- because there's absolutely zero doubt that statistically speaking, his value was almost negative to the Giants throughout his monstrosity of a contract. BUT, putting his numbers aside for a moment, it's also worth looking at the other components of Zito (as both a player and a person) that might have provided some (perhaps negligible) value to San Francisco. They stole him from Oakland, which accounted for a great deal of the overpay, winning them points in the whole intra-city rivalry thing. The guy is prototypically Californian (surf first, think later,) and was a model citizen during his tenure with the team. He represented San Francisco's willingness to spend, and their desire to win. Yeah, he may have tied up money that could have been better spent elsewhere, but it never seemed as though the Giants shopped him agressively or were particularly hamstrung by his contract. And they won. Twice. Helps to wash away that bitter taste.
Click to expand...

I've lived in the East Bay for most of the past eight years. I have to say your take on how the two teams fan bases see this is um rather idiosyncratic.

I think we do agree, however, that mistakes are not necessarily a bad thing or a sign of bad judgment. Anyone in the oil bidness as they call it in Texas will tell you that you have to be willing to drill a lot of dry holes to get any gushers. The right way of evaluating whether the driller is doing a good job is to look into whether he is drilling in places with favorable geological characteristics or just throwing darts at a board.
 
I agree with ncaspi here.

TB has Myers under control for the next 6 years, while Shields is a FA after this season, no lock he re-ups with the Royals.

Thats an awful trade, no way around it.
 
zitothebrave said:
Wowzers.
Click to expand...

To be clear, Hawk read the mlbtraderumors report erroneously. It's unknown which team has offered Beltran 3/48; all it says is that KC is "pushing hard" to land Beltran but may not be the team that offered him 16m per for 3 years. There's some speculation that it's in fact the Mariners who offered that amount (and there's been talk that Seattle has to offer a "premium" to get good players to come there).
 
nsacpi said:
I've lived in the East Bay for most of the past eight years. I have to say your take on how the two teams fan bases see this is um rather idiosyncratic.
Click to expand...

I'm jealous. I have family in the Burlingame area.

Of course, it's pretty hard to qualify that type of 'value' -- but some of these quotes from 2006 tell the tale:

"We view Zito as a franchise player, and we'll certainly need one when Bonds goes," said a Giants source, who asked not to be quoted by name because the deal likely will not be announced until Friday.

"I think Barry Zito will be the face of the Giants franchise for a long time," one sources close to the deal said.

"At last, the Giants showed some guts — and some brains directly attached to those newly fortified intestines."

"Without Barry Zito, the Giants would have been considered a sub-.500 team, struggling for a third straight season in the feeble National League West. No ace. No closer. No third hitter. With Barry Zito, everything changes."

337392373_7441fa6285.jpg
 
ramadon101 said:
To be clear, Hawk read the mlbtraderumors report erroneously. It's unknown which team has offered Beltran 3/48; all it says is that KC is "pushing hard" to land Beltran but may not be the team that offered him 16m per for 3 years. There's some speculation that it's in fact the Mariners who offered that amount (and there's been talk that Seattle has to offer a "premium" to get good players to come there).
Click to expand...

http://nypost.com/2013/12/03/royals-making-big-push-for-yankees-target-beltran/

He's in KC, so I just assumed they were the ones who made the offer. Where are you hearing the Mariners?

Nevertheless, curious that Kansas would even be willing to make that move. Especially if it would require them moving Butler for payroll flexibility (as The Post insinuates.)
 
I think signing Beltran makes sense for KC (even at 3/48). Then flip Butler for a pitcher.

The A's are having a strong post-season.
 
Some cheap rotation possibles among non tenders. Jerome Williams, Jeremy Hefner, Daniel Hudson, Kyle McPherson,and..wait for this... Tommy Hansen.

There's plenty more that have been free agents all along. We should bring a few guys like this to camp, they'll be cheap insurance for Beachy and if one of them shows prior form it would allow us to keep Wood's innings down for a few months.

Bullpen guy non tendered who isn't half bad, Ryan Webb of the Marlins. They also non tendered Chris Coghlan who is, IMO, an upgrade over Schafer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top