Remember Kyle Lewis?

[Enscheff]

Isn't Dansby +10 in OAA?

Have no idea which is the favored defensive metric of the moment, but if people are saying Dansby's more "solid" than Gold Glover, that wouldn't exactly put Lewis in Pache territory, would it?

OF defense is much easier to quantify than IF defense since the vast majority of OF defense value is from catching flyballs with known hang times and landing spots. I would put almost zero stock in any IF defense metric with any more accuracy than roughly tiering guys.

 

[GovClintonTyree]

OF defense is much easier to quantify than IF defense since the vast majority of OF defense value is from catching flyballs with known hang times and landing spots. I would put almost zero stock in any IF defense metric with any more accuracy than roughly tiering guys.

Now THAT'S an interesting comment.

Why are IF metrics so unreliable?

 

[Carp]

Now THAT'S an interesting comment.

Why are IF metrics so unreliable?

I imagine positioning plays a part way more on infield defense than OF defense.

 

[clvclv]

Dansby is at -2

Must've been DRS - saw someone post a rather high number for him in one category or another a couple days ago.

 

[thewupk]

Must've been DRS - saw someone post a rather high number for him in one category or another a couple days ago.

Yeah. DRS seems to be out of touch these days.

 

[Enscheff]

Now THAT'S an interesting comment.

Why are IF metrics so unreliable?

While both take starting position of the fielder into account, things like arm strength and batter run speed matter much more for IFers than they do for OFers. Just getting to a grounder means a lot less for an IFer than getting to a fly ball means to an OFer.

Unless I'm mistaken (I haven't kept up on IF defensive metrics as much as I should), IF defensive plays would have to be rated based on IFer starting position, batted ball speed, batted ball position, throw accuracy, and speed of the runner. I don't think they are that sophisticated yet, but there's really no reason they couldn't be since all that data should be available from the radar tracking system (throw accuracy to 1st base is captured by trackman? No idea...).

On the other hand, OF defense is measured by starting position, hang time, and end position. Trivial to compute and compare against other similar fly balls over the large sample set, and is why OF defensive statcast metrics came out almost immediately. Remember route efficiency?

Definitely something worth looking into some more.

 

[thewupk]

While both take starting position of the fielder into account, things like arm strength and batter run speed matter much more for IFers than they do for OFers. Just getting to a grounder means a lot less for an IFer than getting to a fly ball means to an OFer.

Unless I'm mistaken (I haven't kept up on IF defensive metrics as much as I should), IF defensive plays would have to be rated based on IFer starting position, batted ball speed, batted ball position, throw accuracy, and speed of the runner. I don't think they are that sophisticated yet, but there's really no reason they couldn't be since all that data should be available from the radar tracking system (throw accuracy to 1st base is captured by trackman? No idea...).

On the other hand, OF defense is measured by starting position, hang time, and end position. Trivial to compute and compare against other similar fly balls over the large sample set, and is why OF defensive statcast metrics came out almost immediately. Remember route efficiency?

Definitely something worth looking into some more.

From when they introduced it for infielders

The short version is that there are four primary items that affect the chance of a play being converted into an out:

• How far the fielder has to go to reach the ball ("the intercept point")
• How much time he has to get there
• How far he then is from the base the runner is heading to
• On force plays, how fast the batter is, on average

 

[Enscheff]

Then in that case they are probably more accurate than I gave them credit for being.

 

[50PoundHead]

Lewis ends the year with an .800 OPS. Really slumped with a .572 OPS over the second half of the season. I'm not putting a lot of stock in 2020 stats. Pretty much every player has a stretch where things don't go right and with only 60 games, there's not much time for a rebound depending on when a player's trough hit. It's one of the reasons I'm skeptical about Duvall.

 

[thewupk]

Lewis ends the year with an .800 OPS. Really slumped with a .572 OPS over the second half of the season. I'm not putting a lot of stock in 2020 stats. Pretty much every player has a stretch where things don't go right and with only 60 games, there's not much time for a rebound depending on when a player's trough hit. It's one of the reasons I'm skeptical about Duvall.

Duvall is who he is. An inflated HR/FB against RHP doesn't change the outlook on him. He's a platoon guy.

 

[PawPawMaxwell]

That little hot streak and the 3 homer game put Duvall in everyone's radar. Interesting point to me is that Riley and Duvall have almost exactly same measurable offense except for the 8 home run differential.

 

[50PoundHead]

Duvall is who he is. An inflated HR/FB against RHP doesn't change the outlook on him. He's a platoon guy.

Agree. I just think this season has had the effect of making people think he's more than that.

 

[Carp]

That little hot streak and the 3 homer game put Duvall in everyone's radar. Interesting point to me is that Riley and Duvall have almost exactly same measurable offense except for the 8 home run differential.

He had multiple 3 homer games didn't he?

 

[Carp]

Duvall is who he is. An inflated HR/FB against RHP doesn't change the outlook on him. He's a platoon guy.

Yep. People forget he had a .696 OPS on Sept. 1. He's cooled off considerably in the last week. Hopefully not a harbinger of playoff performance. Could really use hot streak Duvall.

 

[Enscheff]

I'm confident AA understands exactly what Duvall and Riley are at this point, just like he knew exactly what Camargo was while folks were calling to "give him a chance".

I'm not confident he will have the resources to do anything about it for 2021.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

I want inflated Duvall Hr/FB rate for about 15 more games.

 

[clvclv]

I'm confident AA understands exactly what Duvall and Riley are at this point, just like he knew exactly what Camargo was while folks were calling to "give him a chance".

I'm not confident he will have the resources to do anything about it for 2021.

Being fair, it's at least worth mentioning that when people wanted to give him a chance this team wasn't nearly as close to being a legitimate contender as it is now.

 

[Super]

Being fair, it's at least worth mentioning that when people wanted to give him a chance this team wasn't nearly as close to being a legitimate contender as it is now.

people wanted him to be the FT 3B last year and called signing Donaldson a waste.
some then also said he was only bad last year because he didn't get enough chances.
thankfully the Braves FO knew better.

 

[clvclv]

people wanted him to be the FT 3B last year and called signing Donaldson a waste.
some then also said he was only bad last year because he didn't get enough chances.
thankfully the Braves FO knew better.

Some did, sure - still no reason to speak in absolutes. Kinda like saying everyone who isn't a Braves fan pulls for the Yankees.

 

[Super]

Some did, sure - still no reason to speak in absolutes. Kinda like saying everyone who isn't a Braves fan pulls for the Yankees.

huh?
who spoke in absolutes?
you said "when people wanted to give him a chance, it's when the Braves weren't as close to legitimately contending." unless you believe heading into last year the Braves weren't legit contending, then your statement is flat wrong. unless you believe the Braves didn't head into this year as legit contenders, your statement is wrong.