Texas elementary school shooting…

acesfull86 said:
This idea that “we never do anything” is so disingenuous.

In the past 10 years, New York passed a gun manufacturer liability law, a red flag law, the SAFE act - all loaded with provisions that gun control activists have clamored for for years. None of which prevented a white supremacist nutjob from shooting 13 people in Buffalo this month, using legally obtained weapons.
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sturg is right, this shoots down a lot of theoretical solutions.
 
The Chosen One said:
ah. so it isn't about mental health after all.

you would think the people always dismissing gun violence as mental health after these shootings, would have all the data, research, etc. all readily available. since they can always inexplicably, like clockwork, say these shootings aren't about guns they're about mental health. followed by thoughts and prayers.
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you said that right wingers don't want to fund mental health

I'm asking you what mental health the right wing has rejected funding?
 
striker42 said:
Why are people always on the extremes with gun control? After an event like this there seem to be only two sides. One side says any gun control measure would automatically help reduce incidents like this. The other side basically says that gun control is useless, evil and shouldn't be tolerated. It's such a more complex issue than that.

What I can't stand is the first, knee jerk reaction is for politicians on the left to call for background checks. Background checks would prevent almost none of these mass shooting events. Either the person would have been able to get the gun legally with a background check or they took the gun from someone who could get it with a background check. They're essentially useless in these school shootings but they're always put at the front of the line. I have no idea why so much energy is spent on something that's really not that effective these days.

I also can't stand politicians on the right refusing to even have a dialogue about reasonable steps that can be taken. There's just no desire for legitimate dialogue on gun control and that single issue jams the works on other contributing aspects of the problem. Mental health is a huge part of it and the gun control debate jams up any discussion of it. School security is another.

Nothing gets done because no one is willing to put aside the issues they can't agree on and work on the issues they can.
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The goal of many gun control supporters is to heavily restrict or end who has access to firearms. Not all, but enough to be taken seriously in a world where people get disciplined for saying a dude in a dress is still a dude.
As long as that's the case, there is zero motivation for anyone who supports gun ownership to compromise. It's obviously not about compromising to get to a solution, it's compromise to give the gun grabbers a better starting point for the next debate, a ploy to move the Overton Window ever leftward. Even worse, the proposed limitations won't do anything to curb the shootings that get the most coverage, so we know the next argument would just be that we still haven't done enough to limit ownership.

What's a fix? A Constitutional amendment guaranteeing some type of restricted ownership, something airtight enough that a Supreme Court full of Kagans and Sotomayors couldn't re-legislate it because it would never get to them, with terms defined so that no amount of college professors or dictionary editors can change what they mean. The well is that poisoned.
 
sturg33 said:
you said that right wingers don't want to fund mental health

I'm asking you what mental health the right wing has rejected funding?
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190502_substanceabuse_02-649x1024.jpg


See a lot of red states in soft blue.
 
The Chosen One said:
This is a masterclass strategy by right wingers since the tobacco industry.

Force the discussion to be so extreme that nothing will ever come from it, except those profiting from it.

We can't discuss steps to tackle climate change, because there's still a debate in this country about whether or not it's actually real. Thus, the only people who are still profiting from it are the oil and gas industry. Oil and gas know electric and nuclear are the future, they're just spending as much money as they can to delay it.

We can't discuss steps to tackle gun violence, because if one side keeps spouting off non-sense that the end game is all guns are taken, the government will enslave us all, or we'll be invaded by another country, then of course you'll never have meaningful dialogue, and the only people profiting are the gun and ammo manufacturers.

We can't discuss steps to reform policing in this country, because if one side keeps spouting off non-sense that one side of the country wants to eliminate police entirely, then you can't have an adult conversation about fixing policing and police reform in this country.

There is no one clear cut solution that would end all mass shootings. But less guns in circulation would for sure, decrease the amount of mass shootings and reduce gun violence in general. We have spent years fearmongering people into putting more guns in the circulation, and given bad guys easy access to acquire guns, that it's almost a TOO BIG TO FAIL situation. We have so many guns unnecessarily in circulation that reducing them will only make people more attracted to fearmongering that someone is going to break in their house at 2am and hold them up with a gun.
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I think the right's intransigence on gun control is a huge problem. There needs to be an honest discussion about what can be done and the hysterics by the right is just ridiculous.

But I think the left's bullheaded insistence on the same, tired, ineffective measures is part of the problem as well. The first thing the left puts out in this situation is the need for background checks. This guy would have passed a background check. The vast majority of mass shootings are committed with guns that background checks would not have stopped. It's the rankest politics made worse by using the tragedy to attempt to get the high ground.

We seem to have one side trying to get unrelated gun control issues through using a tragedy and the other ignoring the tragedy to hold the line on gun control. It's frustrating to watch.

It's even more frustrating to see the left not willing to discuss things like mental health intervention or school security because they wont entertain anything but gun control while watching the right use legitimate problems like mental health and school security as distractions from gun control instead of the legitimate issues they are.

It's no wonder I've defected from all major political parties.
 
It is hysterics. Without the current interpretation of the second amendment we might end up like Canada or Belgium or New Zealand. Mein Gott.
 
Jaw said:
It's so easy for a person to deny the rights they don't care about.
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Uncle nsacpi Biden doesn't care about any rights.

He's on record for supporting censoring speech, disarming people, forcing medical decisions on them, etc.

Dude is a tyrant and a dumb one at that
 
sturg33 said:
It's tougher to advance a political agenda over toasters, though

[Tw]1529512438743302147[/tw]
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about 40,000 deaths a year from fireams

nice statistical comparison

wonder how many schoolchildren were killed at school by a toaster

weak even by your exceedingly low standards
 
I mean, I’ll tell ya who you should take serious

Someone, when talking about mass killings and gun violence, who brings up toasters

They are obviously serious people
 
nsacpi said:
about 40,000 deaths a year from fireams

nice statistical comparison

wonder how many schoolchildren were killed at school by a toaster

weak even by your exceedingly low standards
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How many per suicide? Do you think that number would be zero without guns?
 
Of course it wouldn’t be zero

But it would be less.

Ffs y’all. The ease of acquiring and using guns is an issue.
 
goldfly said:
Of course it wouldn’t be zero

But it would be less.

Ffs y’all. The ease of acquiring and using guns is an issue.
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Perhaps it would be less. The number by suicide was 24,292. Homicide by gun was 19,384. These numbers are from 2020
 
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