Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
shoulda traded him before then.
2016 Trade Deadline Rumors and Moves
- Thread starter Tapate50
- Start date
shoulda traded him before then.
Hindsight is awesome.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
You can't predict injuries and a team should hold its assets until a premium price is offered.
I'm not particularly disappointed. I thought Johnson would be moved for a mid-level prospect, but it takes two to tango and if no one offers what you want for an asset, do you just give the guy away?
Lol, come on. Coppy can't predict injuries.
If he had traded him early people would be ticked because he didn't wait to maximize his value - some of this criticism is ridiculous.
Right? Everybody is a great GM with a little bit of hindsight backing them up.
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
I wouldnt say give them away. The reality is we dont know if Coppola was offered anything or what was discussed. I do get the feeling that maybe the Miller trade blinded the front office a bit. Just a gut feeling of course. There were reports that ATL was asking alot for Viz/Teheran. We arent gonna get a Miller trade in every trade. If we can get anything of value then yeah id deal the Johnsons and Beckhams. Atlanta isnt going to the playoffs anytime soon. Im also not fond of the Kemp trade but its not the end of the world.
Perfect Cell
Lynchburg Prospect
Sure we cant, but those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. 2015 we kept Grilli way to long when he should have been traded away and he got hurt, Vizcaino should have been traded but the front office probably wanted more and well we are stuck with him now. No reason why Johnson should have been kept though. None at all.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
After seeing how Johnson performed for the Dodgers last year after being traded the Braves would have to give me prospects to take JJ.
This is a pretty large over-exaggeration, imo. The Yankees acquired 8 of the following prospects this deadline:
Clint Frazier - the headliner of their deadline acquisitions. Similar to Swanson in value at the time we traded for him. Unlikely we would have gotten him for anyone on our roster aside from maybe Vizcaino, but even that is a reach as they may have preferred Miller to Viz.
Gleyber Torres - a nice piece for sure, but more projection at this point than actual production. Similar value to Newcomb or Wisler at the time of their trades.
Justice Sheffield - a lefty with projection, but he is pretty short, which questions his long term potential to stay as a starter. Blair would be a similar comp, but I think Blair held quite a bit more value at the time of his trade.
Dillon Tate - Touki 2.0. Million dollar arm, but quite a ways away and struggling pretty bad currently. At least we didn't give up anything valuable for Touki, unlike the Yaknees did for Tate.
Billy McKinney - a decent hitting prospect having a rough year. Projects for average power but good contact and on base skills. Not much of a defender and projected for LF. Bat likely doesn't carry as a LFer. Probably drops out of the Top 100 in the next issue.
Heller, Crawford, and Feyereisen are fringe guys, though I do like Heller's potential as a high leverage reliever. But RP prospects are hardly worth mentioning.
I'm sorry, but those 8 compare nothing to:
Folty, Wisler, Inciarte, Swanson, Blair, Jenkins, Touki, Newcomb, Ruiz, both Petersons, Mallex, Jenkins, Gant, Fried, Whalen, and Demerritte. I'm sure I'm even missing some more. Several of these guys are already making an impact on the major league roster and pretty much all of them have gained value since the trade (sans Blair and Wisler).
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Not to mention all the top international talent we signed and the very solid draft... the farm systems don't come close to comparing. Short memories are fun.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
I think it's foolish to say "the farm systems don't come close to comparing." I mean, a lot of people seem to prefer the Yankees' system over ours, but I think it all depends on how you evaluate talent and depth. The Yankees have A LOT of solid talent, I think depth is more important and we trump ANYONE with that.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
"Alot of people?" I'm open to seeing the links from a lot of those people that aren't Yankees homers. We have A LOT of solid talent as well, Carp did a pretty good job comparing.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
"Homers" is a relative term. All of the fellas' on the MLB Baseball Tonight segment raved out the talent and said it puts them in the top 5, if not top 2-3. I tend to agree with them, though I put us as the exclusive number one.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
We have just as much, if not more high end talent... plus worlds more depth... they may be in the top 5 now, but I still don't think its close.
Don't forget the Yankees did the same thing a couple years ago in the international market, only with more money spent. Sure, there wasn't a Maitan type that year, but they have a lot of lower level talent from that spending spree.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
yanks have the most top 100 players IIRC.
Klaw has us rated higher than most. BA et al seem to have us top 5 but not one. I think there are a couple of teams with more top 100 guys.
Teams like Boston have guys like Benentindi and Moncada who ppl think will be stars. I don't think we have anyone who compares to a moncada unless you count Maitan who is 5 years away.
Teams like the cubs and astros have a ton of talent as young as our minor league guys ripping it up in the majors.
Our division has teams that are better than us and have comparable farms like the Nats.
Nobody is scared of atl.
Klaw has us rated higher than most. BA et al seem to have us top 5 but not one. I think there are a couple of teams with more top 100 guys.
Teams like Boston have guys like Benentindi and Moncada who ppl think will be stars. I don't think we have anyone who compares to a moncada unless you count Maitan who is 5 years away.
Teams like the cubs and astros have a ton of talent as young as our minor league guys ripping it up in the majors.
Our division has teams that are better than us and have comparable farms like the Nats.
Nobody is scared of atl.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Boston likely has a better system... The Nats certainly don't. Not sure about the Cubs with all of the guys they've graduated... they still have alot of talent but most is pretty raw... The Astros have also graduated quite a few.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I don't really care about the system. I prefer to look at talent under 25. And there are a ton of teams that smoke us in talent under 25.
I'd rather have 23 y/o killing it in MLB than a toolsy 19 y/o in A ball.
Most rankings I've seen have the nats w/i 3-5 spots of our rankings for farm systems. that is the same ballpark. And most think Golito (sp?) is the best pitching prospect between the two.
I agree to a certain extent, particularly that nobody is afraid of us. It's why I think a full rebuild is in order. Trade away big league talent on one-year deals for whatever we can get, strongly consider moving Teheran and Freeman if the price is right, and bottom out for now. If we have a bad 2017, we could then enter 2018 with the number one overall pick from 2017 in the system (and if we make some moves to acquire competitive balance picks, the largest draft pool as well to add more talent) and be well on our way to adding another impact player that June with a high pick. I love what we've done so far in terms of adding talent, and I think it will help set us up for future success, I just don't think the job is quite done.
One other thing I think is important to note that Russ hits on is while we might have a better farm system than Houston or Chicago, it's not really a an advantage. The fact that their high end talent graduated either this or last year means they still have that high end young talent.
I will argue that the Nats don't have a particularly comparable farm system to us. They have a few impact players such as Robles and Giolito, but there is not nearly the same level of depth in the system. Our depth is what sets us apart from most clubs right now, as it's the best way to fight against normal prospect attrition. Even if Giolito is further along, I like our chances a lot more of finding a TOR starter because we have a handful with the arm talent to become one. Sure, none of those players on their own are a better bet to succeed in the majors, but having this many genuine prospects is a great thing. Now we just need to add as much as we can over the next two years so that we can build on our already strong system. Hopefully a good power bat becomes available either through the draft or in a trade.
Braves have more depth, Nats have more top end talent. The Nats top 4 of Turner, Giolito, Robles, and Lopez match up well with any team. What closes the gap a bit is the Nats prospects are closer to the majors (or in the majors) where the prime Braves talent is AA and below.
The Phils have some upside as well, they have done a good job of rebuilding after the nightmare later Amaro years. I think this year has pushed their rebuild closer to the level of competing.