2018 Offseason And Targets

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BeanieAntics said:
RA Dickey produced 6.3 fWAR while with the Blue Jays over 4 years. That really isn't that bad for a pitcher his age. But Thor has produced 15 fWAR in 4 years with the Mets, even while missing significant time with injury. And Syndergaard has an injury problem, but it isn't a catastrophic one or anything. He's thrown at least 150 innings in 3 of his 4 seasons in the MLB.

The Mets unequivocally won that trade.
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I specifically said I wasn't defending the trade.

The next piece of hardware Syndergaard gets will be the first one of his professional career - unless someone wants to send him a Golden WAR Calculator, that is.
 
clvclv said:
I specifically said I wasn't defending the trade.

The next piece of hardware Syndergaard gets will be the first one of his professional career - unless someone wants to send him a Golden WAR Calculator, that is.
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Well then what point were you trying to make, exactly? That RA Dickey won a Cy Young and Thor hasn't? That doesn't seem to be substantive to the trade quality at all
 
clvclv said:
I specifically said I wasn't defending the trade.

The next piece of hardware Syndergaard gets will be the first one of his professional career - unless someone wants to send him a Golden WAR Calculator, that is.
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So what were you defending then?
 
Carp said:
Frddie Freeman was 24 and entering his Prime when we started the rebuild. He was going to be 28-29 whem our window was going to open. So it never made sense to trade him unless we were getting back a substantial overpay. And was signed to a contract that, while below market value, wasn't exactly adding value either, so getting appropriate value for his production likely wasn't happening. In what world is that comparable?
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Justify it however you like, Freddie Freeman was kept to be the face of the franchise. Had he not been, "regular fans" wouldn't have gone to the park for several years. The Mariners are looking for the same type of overpay to move Haniger that it would have taken to get the Braves to move Freeman several years ago.

I'm not arguing whether that's the best way to run a franchise these days but given the fact that the Braves are simply an extension of the corporate entity that is Liberty Media, the bottom line did make a bit of a difference. The Mariners may be in a position that their owner's willing to have 10,000 people show up at the park every night like the Marlins do, but it certainly doesn't appear they are. If they are able to turn this around within a couple years, Haniger could very well still be a valuable contributor.

Not trading Haniger could prove to be a mistake, sure. From the standpoint of NOT trading him unless you're blown-away, I'll offer this...

If the Braves had traded Freeman for a handful of prospects 3 years ago, they don't make the playoffs in 2018 - and aren't CLOSE to the position they're in right now. The ifs and buts are endless, but the chances you actually get someone in a return for Freeman or Haniger that actually measures up to them 3 years from when you trade them is on the south end of slim and none. Anybody that argues differently spends a little too much time with their calculator. Keeping the face of your franchise guarantees you nothing other than that you're not chasing players for $300+ million that have never won anything - including enough respect to be considered the leader of your team. Guys like Freeman and Haniger (and Chipper and scores of other ones before him who weren't just about the bottom line) will never measure up to the Harpers and Machados on paper. They also won't have near the challenge of being a leader that guys who tell you point-blank that they're not "Johnny Hustle" or are busy trying to build their brand with hair commercials will have when it comes time to asking teammates to follow them.
 
BeanieAntics said:
This is all silliness. If the Dodgers can find a way to get both Kike Hernandez and Chris Taylor over 400 at bats, then we can find a way to get that many for Camargo. Here are all the scenarios in which we might want to use Camargo:

-Start against RHP in the infield for Dansby/Ozzie/Donaldson (Perhaps on a rotation)
-Start against LHP in the outfield for Ender/LHH OF acquisition
-Injury
-Pinch Hitting
-Starters need Rest
-Starter goes on cold streak

There are probably others too. We could easily get Camargo 3-4 starts a week just by using him to exploit platoon matchups, since he is probably better against RHP than Ozzie and Dansby and we KNOW he is better against LHP than Ender (probably a LHH OF acquisition too). The rest of those at bats can be filled through pinch hitting, injury subs, rest subs, cold streak subs... The dude is going to get plenty of at bats.
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So...

1.) You honestly believe Snitker's going to sit Ozzie on a regular basis even though he started him 67 times after the break when he went ice-cold AND kept him in the #2 hole the vast majority of those nights.

2.) You honestly believe Snitker's going to sit Dansby on a regular basis even though he avoided playing Camargo at the position and constantly started Culberson there instead.

3.) What difference does "platooning" Ender make if you're going to slide Acuna over to replace him on those days if you're also going to play Duvall against the LHPs? You're going to play Camargo against them instead of Markakis? Betcha Snitker wouldn't. He played Nick 162 times last season regardless of who was on the mound.

4.) Predict the next starters' cold streak that coincides with a Camargo hot streak - bet you can't. If you could, you'd have been all over playing Flaherty and Tucker early last season - or maybe Snit's just that good 'cause his gut told him it was a great idea to play those guys.



If you're not going to get Snitker to COMMIT to playing Camargo once a week at 2B, once a week at SS, and twice a week at 3B no matter how hot Ozzie, Dansby, and Donaldson are PLUS at least an OF start every week, you're just not going to get there. Culberson only got 322 PAs last year - with Acuna in the minors for the first 6 weeks, Camargo out for the first month, ice-cold stretches from Albies, and Dansby missing significant time. It's just not going to happen unless you manage the team for him and threaten to fire him unless YOU make out the lineup card every night.
 
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Source: #Mets are in agreement with Wilson Ramos. Pending physical.

Daniel Álvarez Montes
‏@DaniAlvarez_16

Is the source, FWIW, Craig Mish retweeted it.

Saw this on twitter, no one verified but IF true, who else is in on JT now?
 
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clvclv said:
Justify it however you like, Freddie Freeman was kept to be the face of the franchise. Had he not been, "regular fans" wouldn't have gone to the park for several years. The Mariners are looking for the same type of overpay to move Haniger that it would have taken to get the Braves to move Freeman several years ago.

I'm not arguing whether that's the best way to run a franchise these days but given the fact that the Braves are simply an extension of the corporate entity that is Liberty Media, the bottom line did make a bit of a difference. The Mariners may be in a position that their owner's willing to have 10,000 people show up at the park every night like the Marlins do, but it certainly doesn't appear they are. If they are able to turn this around within a couple years, Haniger could very well still be a valuable contributor.

Not trading Haniger could prove to be a mistake, sure. From the standpoint of NOT trading him unless you're blown-away, I'll offer this...

If the Braves had traded Freeman for a handful of prospects 3 years ago, they don't make the playoffs in 2018 - and aren't CLOSE to the position they're in right now. The ifs and buts are endless, but the chances you actually get someone in a return for Freeman or Haniger that actually measures up to them 3 years from when you trade them is on the south end of slim and none. Anybody that argues differently spends a little too much time with their calculator. Keeping the face of your franchise guarantees you nothing other than that you're not chasing players for $300+ million that have never won anything - including enough respect to be considered the leader of your team. Guys like Freeman and Haniger (and Chipper and scores of other ones before him who weren't just about the bottom line) will never measure up to the Harpers and Machados on paper. They also won't have near the challenge of being a leader that guys who tell you point-blank that they're not "Johnny Hustle" or are busy trying to build their brand with hair commercials will have when it comes time to asking teammates to follow them.
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Haniger is hardly the "face" of the Seattle Mariners. By the time the Mariners are ready to compete (even in 2 years) he'll be 30, likely in decline, and getting more expensive. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Mariners make a dumb decision like that, but their are zero similarities between the situations with Freeman and Haniger.
 
Carp said:
Haniger is hardly the "face" of the Seattle Mariners. By the time the Mariners are ready to compete (even in 2 years) he'll be 30, likely in decline, and getting more expensive. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Mariners make a dumb decision like that, but their are zero similarities between the situations with Freeman and Haniger.
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So that would be Gordon? Bruce? Crawford? Mallex? Narvaez? Encarnacion?

Sorry, it's King Felix - the guy they just issued a press release about stating that there's no way they release him in 2019, no matter how bad he pitches.

BTW, I never said it was a "smart decision" - I even pointed out that it could be a mistake.
 
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Rosenthal and Passan just confirmed Ramos to the Mets, thats a huge team out of the Realmuto chase.
 
Braves1976 said:
I never bought that they were the favorites, not surprised they ended up with Ramos. I like him myself but I rather have Realmuto.
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Alot of people (Rosenthal/Sherman, etc) said they really wanted Realmuto. I bought into it, but with them out, who is in on JT now?

Mish said it was Braves, Mets, Yanks, Padres, Dodgers, and Rays yesterday.
 
Heyward said:
Alot of people (Rosenthal/Sherman, etc) said they really wanted Realmuto. I bought into it, but with them out, who is in on JT now?

Mish said it was Braves, Mets, Yanks, Padres, Dodgers, and Rays yesterday.
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We still match up best to trade for him but the Dodgers are possible too. Maybe even the Rays as well.
 
Heyward said:
Alot of people (Rosenthal/Sherman, etc) said they really wanted Realmuto. I bought into it, but with them out, who is in on JT now?

Mish said it was Braves, Mets, Yanks, Padres, Dodgers, and Rays yesterday.
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Don't sleep on the Dodgers - they've got the types of MLB-ready guys the Marlins are looking for - Verdugo, Ruiz, Lux, Will Smith - AND the bigger need.

Not entirely sure they haven't just been waiting in the weeds the entire time.
 
clvclv said:
Don't sleep on the Dodgers - they've got the types of MLB-ready guys the Marlins are looking for - Verdugo, Ruiz, Lux, Will Smith - AND the bigger need.

Not entirely sure they haven't just been waiting in the weeds the entire time.
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LAD can probably offer the best package, it's just if they will.
 
I would have loved to sign Ramos at that price point. This does increase the likelihood of JTR, but think I would have rather done what the Mets did.
 
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