2018 Offseason And Targets

Status
Not open for further replies.
clvclv said:
I specifically said I wasn't defending the trade.

The next piece of hardware Syndergaard gets will be the first one of his professional career - unless someone wants to send him a Golden WAR Calculator, that is.
Click to expand...

I mean, I get your argument, but Syndergaard has incredible value right now and Dickey was almost or already 40. Granted, it's hard to know what he'd turn into, but I think even at the time that trade was really dumb.
 
Marlins are going to have to make a decision soon or they risk every team turning down their demands. At some point, you have to realize you aren’t going to get everything you want in a deal and tone down the expectations. They’re getting close to that point.
 
clvclv said:
So...

1.) You honestly believe Snitker's going to sit Ozzie on a regular basis even though he started him 67 times after the break when he went ice-cold AND kept him in the #2 hole the vast majority of those nights.

2.) You honestly believe Snitker's going to sit Dansby on a regular basis even though he avoided playing Camargo at the position and constantly started Culberson there instead.

3.) What difference does "platooning" Ender make if you're going to slide Acuna over to replace him on those days if you're also going to play Duvall against the LHPs? You're going to play Camargo against them instead of Markakis? Betcha Snitker wouldn't. He played Nick 162 times last season regardless of who was on the mound.

4.) Predict the next starters' cold streak that coincides with a Camargo hot streak - bet you can't. If you could, you'd have been all over playing Flaherty and Tucker early last season - or maybe Snit's just that good 'cause his gut told him it was a great idea to play those guys.



If you're not going to get Snitker to COMMIT to playing Camargo once a week at 2B, once a week at SS, and twice a week at 3B no matter how hot Ozzie, Dansby, and Donaldson are PLUS at least an OF start every week, you're just not going to get there. Culberson only got 322 PAs last year - with Acuna in the minors for the first 6 weeks, Camargo out for the first month, ice-cold stretches from Albies, and Dansby missing significant time. It's just not going to happen unless you manage the team for him and threaten to fire him unless YOU make out the lineup card every night.
Click to expand...

1. Yes. We had no real viable options that were better than Ozzie because our bench was terrible. Even with a .757 OPS, he was still almost a 4 win player. He's good, but if he continues the horrific struggles vs righties, I don't think Snitker would have a problem siphoning off 1-2 starts per week from him. Especially if it came directly from AA.

2. If Culberson goes nuts like he did last year, perhaps not. But in all likelihood Culberson is looking down the barrel of significant regression and when that happens, yes Camargo would be the logical choice to take 1-2 starts per week from Dansby if it would benefit the lineup.

3. What the hell does Markakis have to do with this? I'm not expecting him back. But yes, even if he comes back it would be perfectly reasonable to give Camargo a start over Ender against a LHP. Maybe Duvall is your primary option if he gets back going, but if he doesn't: Camargo. And if we get a guy like Joc or Brantley or Peralta rather than Markakis, then both would have a role.

4. This is just a terrible point. You don't have to predict when Camargo gets hot and when a player gets cold to know that Camargo could serve as insurance against a cold streak. This might seriously be the weirdest point I've seen since arriving here.

My point is that every single baseball season is filled with dozens of variables and you have to have contingencies for every single one of those variables if you're gonna contend. Camargo buys insurance for a large portion of those variables, he provides direct impact by his platoon/pinch hit opportunities, and he does it making league minimum. Any club with half a brain can find a way to get Camargo 400+ plate appearances while serving a utility role. Look at the Dodger's starters last year. It was one of the best lineups in baseball. Probably better than we will roll out next year (although maybe not). Chris Taylor was their Camargo and he ended up getting over 500 at bats while playing almost every position on the field.
 
clvclv said:
So that would be Gordon? Bruce? Crawford? Mallex? Narvaez? Encarnacion?

Sorry, it's King Felix - the guy they just issued a press release about stating that there's no way they release him in 2019, no matter how bad he pitches.

BTW, I never said it was a "smart decision" - I even pointed out that it could be a mistake.
Click to expand...

It seems like this is a common fallback.

clv - "This might not be good/bad, but here are all the weird reasons why its probably good/bad"

retort - "That wasn't good/bad at all"

clv - "I never said it was good/bad! I said it might not be"
 
Hudson2 said:
Well the Mets are out on JTR. Marlins are running out of trade partners.
Click to expand...

I'm really beginning to think that we have a Riley + offer out there that the Marlins are trying to get someone to top without any luck. One of either Mac or Flowers should be included. Hopefully Newk. If we trade Soroka I will be really, REALLY upset.
 
CrimsonCowboy said:
[TW]1074426403565830150[/TW]
Click to expand...

If Yasiel Puig headlined a trade for Realmuto, the Marlins might go down as the single dumbest organization with the single dumbest move in the history of baseball. Given the Marlin's current position, you have to demand Verdugo as the headliner right? I mean, what kind of purpose does 1 year of Yasiel Puig serve?
 
BeanieAntics said:
If Yasiel Puig headlined a trade for Realmuto, the Marlins might go down as the single dumbest organization with the single dumbest move in the history of baseball. Given the Marlin's current position, you have to demand Verdugo as the headliner right? I mean, what kind of purpose does 1 year of Yasiel Puig serve?
Click to expand...

Meh it's Nightendale, i'm taking everything Mish says on JT as truth. Anything else is just rumors.

Or unless someone actually breaks news of the trade of course.
 
Last edited:
Carp said:
Dang, 2 years and 19 million is a very good deal for NY. I figured he'd get closer to 2/30.
Click to expand...

The fact that we signed McCann so quickly is kind of puzzling at the moment. It either means that Enscheff is right and AA has really misread the market or we didn't have enough money for a signing like this after Donaldson (plus cOF signing). Or maybe he likes McCann's value at 2 million more than this Ramos deal... Who knows. I'm not a fan lol
 
CrazyTrain said:
I mean, I get your argument, but Syndergaard has incredible value right now and Dickey was almost or already 40. Granted, it's hard to know what he'd turn into, but I think even at the time that trade was really dumb.
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with that at all - hindsight's always 20-20, and thus far Syndergaard's achieved nothing that makes it "a dumb trade". YET.

It was just another win now type of move that gets made time and time again.
 
I like that deal for the mets. Mets are going to be a lot better.

We will need two more major position player pieces to win the division IMO. I think we will have to get a big upgrade at CF or SS offensively without punting defense.
 
BeanieAntics said:
1. Yes. We had no real viable options that were better than Ozzie because our bench was terrible. Even with a .757 OPS, he was still almost a 4 win player. He's good, but if he continues the horrific struggles vs righties, I don't think Snitker would have a problem siphoning off 1-2 starts per week from him. Especially if it came directly from AA.

2. If Culberson goes nuts like he did last year, perhaps not. But in all likelihood Culberson is looking down the barrel of significant regression and when that happens, yes Camargo would be the logical choice to take 1-2 starts per week from Dansby if it would benefit the lineup.

3. What the hell does Markakis have to do with this? I'm not expecting him back. But yes, even if he comes back it would be perfectly reasonable to give Camargo a start over Ender against a LHP. Maybe Duvall is your primary option if he gets back going, but if he doesn't: Camargo. And if we get a guy like Joc or Brantley or Peralta rather than Markakis, then both would have a role.

4. This is just a terrible point. You don't have to predict when Camargo gets hot and when a player gets cold to know that Camargo could serve as insurance against a cold streak. This might seriously be the weirdest point I've seen since arriving here.

My point is that every single baseball season is filled with dozens of variables and you have to have contingencies for every single one of those variables if you're gonna contend. Camargo buys insurance for a large portion of those variables, he provides direct impact by his platoon/pinch hit opportunities, and he does it making league minimum. Any club with half a brain can find a way to get Camargo 400+ plate appearances while serving a utility role. Look at the Dodger's starters last year. It was one of the best lineups in baseball. Probably better than we will roll out next year (although maybe not). Chris Taylor was their Camargo and he ended up getting over 500 at bats while playing almost every position on the field.
Click to expand...

The original post I responded to specifically referenced Matt saying "if we land JT then I could see a Neck deal working".

If you'd have taken the time to read the entire post, you'll see that I said that "I agree we need to upgrade the bench, but not at the expense of having a Markakis/Duvall platoon on a corner".

Again, if AA intends to dictate lineup construction to Snitker and FORCES him to play Camargo at specific times, that's fine. The truth is we all know this isn't going to happen. The Dodgers tried doing that with Roberts, and when it didn't work in the postseason and they tried to have him be the sacrificial lamb that managed strictly by the numbers he called them on it publicly and they all went running for cover.

No one has a problem with researching the numbers to find whatever edges they might provide you. However, if you're going to do that and force-feed in-game decisions to the "Manager", the GM needs to be standing right beside him during every press conference and answering "because I told him to" when the press asks him why he chose to make a move.

(BTW - "If" Ozzie continues to struggle against righties??? Don't the numbers point out that that's an absolute necessity? Or are you playing him because your gut says he's going to snap out of it in his next AB against one?)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top