2018 Offseason And Targets

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Super said:
i mean, it's convenient to select a frame that suits you. but verlander's career is far better than bumgarner's. and then take WAR from, say, 16-18 and let me know how it looks.
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His cherry picking is worse than what you suggest. Bum had two fluke injuries in that span, while JV has been healthy.

If you look at JV from 05-12 and MB from 09-16, basically the first 8 years of each career, JV is at .158 fWAR / start and MB is at .128. Totals of 36.8 and 27.6 respectively. Bum started at 20 and JV at 22. While JV is definitely better, MB is no slouch.
 
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CrazyTrain said:
My guess is that the trade AA mentioned is for Gray. I don't see us really moving the needle on anything going forward. We'll add a bargain arm to the pen from the pool of whatever is left before the season starts, take a stab at a "buy low" for the rotation like Gray (Similar to Gausman deal) and start Duvall in the open cOF slot.
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Will be interesting to see what looks more different between now and the opening of camp - the "new uniforms" or the roster.
 
Super said:
i mean, it's convenient to select a frame that suits you. but verlander's career is far better than bumgarner's. and then take WAR from, say, 16-18 and let me know how it looks.
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2016-2018...

MB = 8.0 fWAR over 72 starts ~ 0.11 per
JV = 16.1 fWAR over 101 starts ~ 0.16 per
 
CrazyTrain said:
MB is no slouch.
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no one has ever, at any point, argued this. i don't think it's even been hinted at. so what is the point of stating it.
the point is, comparing bumgarner to verlander is stupid. they are not and were not similar. verlander always had higher peaks. just because he was able to return to near-peak doesn't mean bumgarner will be able to do it, or come anywhere close. it's just a dumb thing to reference for a bunch of reasons...but it keeps being referenced.
 
Super said:
also, do you think that's particularly close? over 30 starts, that's 3.3 WAR vs 4.8 WAR. that's...not close.
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Jeez, dude... i don't care about JV or MB. Certainly not enough to throw a temper tantrum like you. You said JV was better than MB all along, and I just showed the pre-injury MB was better or at least comparable to pre-trade JV for a 3-year span. When you were younger you took your ball and went home every time you got mad, didn't you?

ETA... I showed 16-18 bc you asked. Never said anything about it
 
msstate7 said:
Jeez, dude... i don't care about JV or MB. Certainly not enough to throw a temper tantrum like you. You said JV was better than MB all along, and I just showed the pre-injury MB was better or at least comparable to pre-trade JV for a 3-year span. When you were younger you took your ball and went home every time you got mad, didn't you?

ETA... I showed 16-18 bc you asked. Never said anything about it
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so, you interpret "all along" to mean "a 3 year stretch that best suits me." gotcha.
just present better arguments. i know you're from mississippi, but still.
 
Tapate50 said:
Why’s it always gotta be an arguement Super?
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was it not?
1). i make a factual statement about a comparison that has been made frequently despite being a bad one
2). mississippi posts a response to this statement attempting to present an argument against it
3). i point out why it's flawed

how about we just raise our expectations of our fellow posters? for example, when attempting to refute something, post something of relevance. it's really not a tough ask for most.
 
Super said:
so, you interpret "all along" to mean "a 3 year stretch that best suits me." gotcha.
just present better arguments. i know you're from mississippi, but still.
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Sorry super but I have to agree with state on this one. All along to me means at any point in their career’s. It seems like you’re moving the goalposts on this one. And knowing state he really doesn’t have a dog in this fight he just likes to play devils Advocate.
 
"all" along, to me, means their careers. having a higher peak, and being a better pitcher throughout his career (or, "all along") is important when looking at this comparison.

that doesn't mean verlander has been better in every single season.
 
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