2018 Offseason And Targets

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zbhargrove said:
The ankle hasn't bothered him since. You're making it more than it is. His shoulder is bionic now... sure there is risk... but he's not super injury prone like you are suggesting
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When I see a guy who is now past 30 and has two significant soft tissue injuries in the last couple years, it concerns me. A lot of guys hit a point where things start pulling or snapping. It's what I would worry about with Brantley. It's also, as has been pointed out, why he's probably not going to make as much as he otherwise would as a FA.
 
All this discussion is exactly the reason why I'd rather explore the trade market for corner outfielders. All the reasonable FAs have major flaws
 
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BeanieAntics said:
All this discussion is exactly the reason why I'd rather explore the trade market for corner outfielders. All the reasonable FAs have major flaws
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All players not named Mike Trout have "major flaws".

The problem with going the trade route is...

1.) What corner OF with less flaws than these guys is REALISTICALLY available - not a pipe dream like Haniger/Frazier?

2.) Just how much are you willing to overpay for those with more than one year of control with the fewest flaws?


Schwarber's probably available, but his defense is worse than Kemp's. Happ may or may not be available, but he strikes out more often than Francoeur. Peralta may or may not be available, but he's going to cost a piece AA may not be willing to give up since the free-agents fit just as well. Pederson? Do you really think a Pederson/Duvall platoon would be better? The Mutts aren't trading Conforto. Mazara isn't better than the free-agents. The Rays didn't go get Pham and trade Mallex away so they could trade Pham now. Schebler? Seriously? Kepler? No thanks - he's not better.


Franmil Reyes and Domingo Santana are probably available, but what will they cost? And are they really better than the free-agents?
 
clvclv said:
All players not named Mike Trout have "major flaws".

The problem with going the trade route is...

1.) What corner OF with less flaws than these guys is REALISTICALLY available - not a pipe dream like Haniger/Frazier?

2.) Just how much are you willing to overpay for those with more than one year of control with the fewest flaws?


Schwarber's probably available, but his defense is worse than Kemp's. Happ may or may not be available, but he strikes out more often than Francoeur. Peralta may or may not be available, but he's going to cost a piece AA may not be willing to give up since the free-agents fit just as well. Pederson? Do you really think a Pederson/Duvall platoon would be better? The Mutts aren't trading Conforto. Mazara isn't better than the free-agents. The Rays didn't go get Pham and trade Mallex away so they could trade Pham now. Schebler? Seriously? Kepler? No thanks - he's not better.


Franmil Reyes and Domingo Santana are probably available, but what will they cost? And are they really better than the free-agents?
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Well, to be fair none of us really *know* who is available. Based on speculation I’d prefer Rosario, Marte,Dickerson, Peralta, buying low on Calhoun, and Kepler.
 
If you go the trade route and the Cubs threw in a TON of cash. I wouldn’t mind looking at Heyward again.

WOuldnt cost a lot in terms of prospect value and again, it’d have to be a TON of cash.
 
clvclv said:
All players not named Mike Trout have "major flaws".

The problem with going the trade route is...

1.) What corner OF with less flaws than these guys is REALISTICALLY available - not a pipe dream like Haniger/Frazier?

2.) Just how much are you willing to overpay for those with more than one year of control with the fewest flaws?


Schwarber's probably available, but his defense is worse than Kemp's. Happ may or may not be available, but he strikes out more often than Francoeur. Peralta may or may not be available, but he's going to cost a piece AA may not be willing to give up since the free-agents fit just as well. Pederson? Do you really think a Pederson/Duvall platoon would be better? The Mutts aren't trading Conforto. Mazara isn't better than the free-agents. The Rays didn't go get Pham and trade Mallex away so they could trade Pham now. Schebler? Seriously? Kepler? No thanks - he's not better.


Franmil Reyes and Domingo Santana are probably available, but what will they cost? And are they really better than the free-agents?
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Obviously all players have flaws. My contention is those on the potential trade market have less flaws, cost less money, and carry less risk than those on the trade market. Out of all the guys you listed, Peralta is the obvious candidate and I don't think he's going to cost as much as you think. He's projected for 2.6 WAR next year. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's say he'll be good for 5.5 WAR over the next two years. He'll make around 20 million over that time probably so he's gonna be valued anywhere from 35-45 million in surplus value. Somewhere in there. That is far less than we'd have to give up if we decided to trade for catcher (Realmuto) and sign our outfielder. Realistically, Peralta would cost us something like Bryse Wilson and Joey Wentz. At most, it would be something like Ian Anderson and some random 40 or 45 FV prospect. That price doesn't scare me off.

All the other guys you mentioned are somewhat flawed, but a lot of them are young with a lot of upside baked in to their current production. For McCutchen or Brantley or Pollock they all have age and/or durability working against them. If it came down to it, would I rather take a 3 win player with significant injury/decline risk for more money and no prospects, OR would I rather take a 2 win player with less injury/decline risk, youth, and some amount of unrealized potential for less money and some prospects. I'd take it on a case by case basis, but usually I'm gonna go with option 2. I'd probably take Scwarber or Pederson over any of the free agents available, but not Mazara, for example. I should note that the above only applies to a couple of the guys you mentioned.
 
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bravesfanforlife88 said:
If you go the trade route and the Cubs threw in a TON of cash. I wouldn’t mind looking at Heyward again.

WOuldnt cost a lot in terms of prospect value and again, it’d have to be a TON of cash.
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In what way would Heyward be an upgrade other than defense? Adding a strictly defensive player to play LF would be nuts. You're interested in creating more black holes in the lineup?

I'm not interested in Heyward if they pay the whole contract personally. If it cost a prospect at all, even less interested. Where in the world would you ever play Pache? There's no guarantee that you can trade Ender when he's ready as his defense and legs will be declining. Adding Heyward would give you three guys that should hit 8th in the same lineup (Heyward, Ender, and Dansby), and four when Ozzie goes chasing.

That's by far the worst contract in the game (in a long time, actually), and the GM that helps buy Theo out of it ought to be fired immediately.

I'd rather cross my fingers and hope Duvall starts hitting again.
 
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BeanieAntics said:
Obviously all players have flaws. My contention is those on the potential trade market have less flaws, cost less money, and carry less risk than those on the trade market. Out of all the guys you listed, Peralta is the obvious candidate and I don't think he's going to cost as much as you think. He's projected for 2.6 WAR next year. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's say he'll be good for 5.5 WAR over the next two years. He'll make around 20 million over that time probably so he's gonna be valued anywhere from 35-45 million in surplus value. Somewhere in there. That is far less than we'd have to give up if we decided to trade for catcher (Realmuto) and sign our outfielder. Realistically, Peralta would cost us something like Bryse Wilson and Joey Wentz. At most, it would be something like Ian Anderson and some random 40 or 45 FV prospect. That price doesn't scare me off.

All the other guys you mentioned are somewhat flawed, but a lot of them are young with a lot of upside baked in to their current production. For McCutchen or Brantley or Pollock they all have age and/or durability working against them. If it came down to it, would I rather take a 3 win player with significant injury/decline risk for more money and no prospects, OR would I rather take a 2 win player with less injury/decline risk, youth, and some amount of unrealized potential for less money and some prospects. I'd take it on a case by case basis, but usually I'm gonna go with option 2. I'd probably take Scwarber or Pederson over any of the free agents available, but not Mazara, for example. I should note that the above only applies to a couple of the guys you mentioned.
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You expect Peralta to get BETTER between age 32 and 33 when everybody else declines? So from 2.6 in 2019 to 2.9 in 2020 while also moving to a park that's harder to hit in? Is his defense suddenly going to improve when he gets comfortable and learns all those quirky angles in LF in SunTrust?

Peralta's 8 months younger than McCutchen - you're not talking about somebody in their 20s here.

I'm fine with him as a fit, but let's don't act like he's a perfect answer either. McCutchen and Brantley are projected to provide the same WAR in 2019 and won't cost any prospects. Is there some reason to expect Peralta to be better than either of them in 2020 other than a feeling? He's already had a lost year in 2016 too, and we may very well have seen his career year 3 years ago.

My point is, if AA's not going to spend this chunk of money on higher-end guys (Machado/Harper/Grandal/Kimbrel/Britton) what good is there in having it? If trading for Peralta costs you the prospects you mention AND $20 million, where is he going to spend that money he'd save over the next two years by not paying a free-agent (likely about $10 million)? If he'd spend those resources and wind up with Peralta AND Gonzalez while also getting a Closer, I'm all for it. I'm just not convinced that will happen, so I'd just as soon spend on McCutchen and keep the prospects to use to fill another hole at some point.

You're more or less dodging the question by talking in generalities - "a 2-Win player with less injury/decline risk...", etc.. I certainly don't think the free-agents AA's likely to play on are ideal, but pick someone and make your case why those players would be better. Pederson absolutely requires a platoon partner and considering how much Theo loves Schwarber, he's going to ask for the moon for him.
 
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Peralta is not really younger or less of an injury risk and his past season is much more likely to be an outlier than any of the second tier free agents.

I’m not sure how he became perceived as safer or all that much cheaper.
 
Not sure why people think Peralta holds no risk and a FA signing would. Peralta had a career year and will be 32, he's no less of a risk than Brantley or McCutchen. Brantley holds health risk but when healthy, the dude flat out hits.

All Brantley costs is money, and Peralta would absolutely cost more than Wentz and Wilson.
 
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of signing Cutch for 2 years. It would allow us to put our resources (prospects) into C and maybe a starter if we wanted to upgrade. Cutch wouldn’t cost a pick and would look good in LF or RF for us.
 
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Hudson2 said:
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of signing Cutch for 2 years. It would allow us to put our resources (prospects) into C and maybe a starter if we wanted to upgrade. Cutch wouldn’t cost a pick and would look good in LF or RF for us.
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When you go back and look at his numbers he's not as washed up as you thought. He still walks, and has some pop. The defense has been down, but playing in a corner oF spot and utilizing thew defensive positioning we did last year could help make him a decent cOF.
 
Chico said:
When you go back and look at his numbers he's not as washed up as you thought. He still walks, and has some pop. The defense has been down, but playing in a corner oF spot and utilizing thew defensive positioning we did last year could help make him a decent cOF.
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Yeah, Cutch has moved into my #1 spot for FA OF.
 
This is my first post on this board, but I would say that I have been a daily reader for the past few years. I am to the point where i'm excited about Braves baseball again and want to see us win a championship. When I think about the players on this team that are in their prime or entering their prime (Freeman, Acuna, Albies, Folty, etc.), it makes me want to go all out this off season and construct a roster that can compete with teams like the dodgers and redsox. I love a good prospect as much as the next guy, but we are at the point in the rebuild process where we need to unload them for players that will help us win today. That said, we can afford to part with many of our prospects and still have a strong farm. That is the luxury of having a deep farm that has been built up over many years. Here is my ideal off season: Trade Wright and Riley for Paxton. Trade Anderson, Wentz, and Allard for Realmuto. Trade Soroka and Pache for Kluber. Sign Marwin Gonzalez, Brantley, and some bullpen pieces. Try your best to dump Teheran and that contract. This gives you a roster that can go toe to toe with anyone, while keeping a strong farm with Touki, Gohara, Waters, Wilson, Contreras, etc. Obviously, there is no guarantee that the other teams would accept these deals, but I feel they are at least close to reality. Thoughts?
 
HailstateBrave said:
This is my first post on this board, but I would say that I have been a daily reader for the past few years. I am to the point where i'm excited about Braves baseball again and want to see us win a championship. When I think about the players on this team that are in their prime or entering their prime (Freeman, Acuna, Albies, Folty, etc.), it makes me want to go all out this off season and construct a roster that can compete with teams like the dodgers and redsox. I love a good prospect as much as the next guy, but we are at the point in the rebuild process where we need to unload them for players that will help us win today. That said, we can afford to part with many of our prospects and still have a strong farm. That is the luxury of having a deep farm that has been built up over many years. Here is my ideal off season: Trade Wright and Riley for Paxton. Trade Anderson, Wentz, and Allard for Realmuto. Trade Soroka and Pache for Kluber. Sign Marwin Gonzalez, Brantley, and some bullpen pieces. Try your best to dump Teheran and that contract. This gives you a roster that can go toe to toe with anyone, while keeping a strong farm with Touki, Gohara, Waters, Wilson, Contreras, etc. Obviously, there is no guarantee that the other teams would accept these deals, but I feel they are at least close to reality. Thoughts?
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Hail state!

Why intentionally shorten our window? 1 big time is all I'd do.
 
HailstateBrave said:
This is my first post on this board, but I would say that I have been a daily reader for the past few years. I am to the point where i'm excited about Braves baseball again and want to see us win a championship. When I think about the players on this team that are in their prime or entering their prime (Freeman, Acuna, Albies, Folty, etc.), it makes me want to go all out this off season and construct a roster that can compete with teams like the dodgers and redsox. I love a good prospect as much as the next guy, but we are at the point in the rebuild process where we need to unload them for players that will help us win today. That said, we can afford to part with many of our prospects and still have a strong farm. That is the luxury of having a deep farm that has been built up over many years. Here is my ideal off season: Trade Wright and Riley for Paxton. Trade Anderson, Wentz, and Allard for Realmuto. Trade Soroka and Pache for Kluber. Sign Marwin Gonzalez, Brantley, and some bullpen pieces. Try your best to dump Teheran and that contract. This gives you a roster that can go toe to toe with anyone, while keeping a strong farm with Touki, Gohara, Waters, Wilson, Contreras, etc. Obviously, there is no guarantee that the other teams would accept these deals, but I feel they are at least close to reality. Thoughts?
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I'm all for making some trades but thats a bit much. I'd probably make one big trade, two maybe if the cost wasnt extreme. But we still need to keep some of these prospects for future trades and development.
 
HailstateBrave said:
This is my first post on this board, but I would say that I have been a daily reader for the past few years. I am to the point where i'm excited about Braves baseball again and want to see us win a championship. When I think about the players on this team that are in their prime or entering their prime (Freeman, Acuna, Albies, Folty, etc.), it makes me want to go all out this off season and construct a roster that can compete with teams like the dodgers and redsox. I love a good prospect as much as the next guy, but we are at the point in the rebuild process where we need to unload them for players that will help us win today. That said, we can afford to part with many of our prospects and still have a strong farm. That is the luxury of having a deep farm that has been built up over many years. Here is my ideal off season: Trade Wright and Riley for Paxton. Trade Anderson, Wentz, and Allard for Realmuto. Trade Soroka and Pache for Kluber. Sign Marwin Gonzalez, Brantley, and some bullpen pieces. Try your best to dump Teheran and that contract. This gives you a roster that can go toe to toe with anyone, while keeping a strong farm with Touki, Gohara, Waters, Wilson, Contreras, etc. Obviously, there is no guarantee that the other teams would accept these deals, but I feel they are at least close to reality. Thoughts?
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Welcome to the board. But that’s a lot of talent to trade. I agree we need Realmuto. That’s a lot to give up for Kluber at his age. I know he’s an ace but at going on age 33 his arm could fall off anytime so I’d rather not put Pache and Soroka in the same deal.
 
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