2018 Offseason And Targets

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bravesfanMatt said:
Oh. I wasn’t doubting you. But how can the M send a 4 war reliever and a 4 war infielder for 26 million and 2 prospects outside the top 50. That is insane. Bruce and suckzact and that other garabage minor leaguer are worth nothing.

The M’s are stupid if that is the deal.
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I know, thought i'd just share the source....there seems to be conflicting reports on the cash going to the Mets. If it is the $60m plus them paying for Bruce, this is a terrible trade for the M's
 
This is two of the dumbest teams in baseball trying to do something that looks smart. If the Mariners kick in 60 million dollars in salary while taking on Jay Bruce and Swarzak, they better be getting more prospects than Jared Kelenic and Justin Dunn. Are you seriously about to trade Edwin Diaz, Robinson Cano, and 60 million dollars for two 50 FV prospects and some random reliever? Edit: While ALSO taking on the bad contracts of Bruce and Swarzak. Dipoto has lost his grip on reality.

The details of this trade are baffling.
 
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bravesfanMatt said:
Oh. I wasn’t doubting you. But how can the M send a 4 war reliever and a 4 war infielder for 26 million and 2 prospects outside the top 50. That is insane. Bruce and suckzact and that other garabage minor leaguer are worth nothing.

The M’s are stupid if that is the deal.
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We obviously have to wait for the final details, but it certainly seems like the Ms are using Diaz to unload a small fraction of Cano’s contract, bail the Mets out of the Bruce deal, and only getting Kelenic and filler in return.
 
CrazyTrain said:
Sorry, but "high draft pick and pedigree" is water under the bridge. It's like having a good HS GPA and putting that on your resume... who the f cares.
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Oh gee... I dunno, when he posted an .843 or greater his first two full years in the majors with good peripherals and he finally started to find himself in AA in the Diamondbacks system, maybe you should care because it's called "more evidence to support the argument" i.e., it didn't come out of nowhere and isn't a fluke. Good lord you're an idiot.

What are you exactly trying to argue here? Are you actually trying to suggest Haniger wouldn't be an amazing fit in the lineup?
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
Martino now tweets that the Mariners are slated to send an enormous $60MM to the Mets in addition to taking on the contracts of Bruce and Swarzak. If that iteration of the trade ultimately does go through, it’d be a major wrinkle in favor of New York, who would effectively be paying just $26MM of the remaining money owed to Cano.
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Damn I would have taken Cano for that... but he likely would have used his no trade clause to us... word is he was excited to go back to NY
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
Martino now tweets that the Mariners are slated to send an enormous $60MM to the Mets in addition to taking on the contracts of Bruce and Swarzak. If that iteration of the trade ultimately does go through, it’d be a major wrinkle in favor of New York, who would effectively be paying just $26MM of the remaining money owed to Cano.
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By my calculations the Mariners should be sending the Mets about 30M to equalize things. So yes 60M is a bit much unless I'm missing something.

Doing this trade helps the Mets quite a bit in 2019 and 2020. It will hurt them the last year or two of Cano's contract (2022-2023), but overall it is a win for the Mets.
 
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Kelenic could easily be a top 20 prospect next year. He's valued a lot higher than where he shows up on lists. He's lower because of his proximity to the majors.
 
zbhargrove said:
Oh gee... I dunno, when he posted an .843 or greater his first two full years in the majors with good peripherals and he finally started to find himself in AA in the Diamondbacks system, maybe you should care because it's called "more evidence to support the argument" i.e., it didn't come out of nowhere and isn't a fluke. Good lord you're an idiot.

What are you exactly trying to argue here? Are you actually trying to suggest Haniger wouldn't be an amazing fit in the lineup?
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The only thing I'm arguing is that saying "but he was a top draft pick and has a good pedigree" doesn't really mean squat. When you're 28, you are who you are, regardless of where you were drafted. I have no doubts he'd look good in RF, assuming his defense is good enough. If you want to support your argument, use some stats like you did in your first sentence on your second post, don't tell me where he was on a prospect list or where he was drafted.
 
Per Rosenthal: Talks involving Zack Greinke have revolved around his remaining money owed, also his 15 team no trade list is the following: Orioles, Red Sox, Reds, Rockies, Tigers, Yankees, A's, Padres, Giants, Cardinals, Blue Jays, Angels, Dodgers, Twins, and Phillies.
 
bravesfanforlife88 said:
Per Rosenthal: Talks involving Zack Greinke have revolved around his remaining money owed, also his 15 team no trade list is the following: Orioles, Red Sox, Reds, Rockies, Tigers, Yankees, A's, Padres, Giants, Cardinals, Blue Jays, Angels, Dodgers, Twins, and Phillies.
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We know he wants to play for the Braves because he likes scouting prospects in his free time.
 
NYCBrave said:
Really don't get this trade for the Mets either. You also have the PED concerns with Cano as well. Don't see how it makes sense to target a player for his age 36-40 seasons. Are they planning to move him to 1B? It was just mentioned that McNeill is off the table, well that's their current starting 2B who they need to give everyday AB's to after what he showed last season.
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If they actually do move Syndergaard to the Padres, they wouldn't necessarily need to. Rather than complicating the deal with the Ms even further in an attempt to get Mallex included (which would have been even more stupid on Dipoto's part), the whispered Syndergaard deal with San Diego might suddenly make sense if the Mutts are still trying to compete now. Rather than moving Bruce to 1B and putting Mallex in CF, they get their CF from San Diego in Margot, along with Hedges and a ready 55 FV SP prospect in Paddack, hope to get by with Smith at 1B (or maybe even add a fairly cheap stopgap there like Matt Adams, Duda, etc. until they call Alonso up), sign another SP and RP in the second-tier to be Diaz' setup guy and use McNeil as their super-sub...

CF- Margot, RF- Nimmo, 2B- Cano, 3B- Frazier, LF- Conforto, C- Hedges, 1B- Smith (Adams/Duda/etc. until they call up Alonso), SS- Rosario

Plawecki, McNeil, Lagares, ??? (with Cespedes back around midseason)

deGrom, Corbin/Keuchel/Happ, Wheeler, Matz, Paddack/Vargas

Diaz, FA RP, Lugo, Gsellman, etc.

Would be pretty crowded in the OF if/when Cespedes gets back, but that's not a terrible problem to have.
 
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Enscheff said:
We obviously have to wait for the final details, but it certainly seems like the Ms are using Diaz to unload a small fraction of Cano’s contract, bail the Mets out of the Bruce deal, and only getting Kelenic and filler in return.
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Edwards at FG did a pretty good breakdown of the rumored trade proposal: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/mets-mariners-near-blockbuster-trade/

He broke it down into 2 trades as a way of understanding it easier...

1. Cano plus $20M for Bruce and Swarzak
2. Diaz for Jarred Kelenic, Justin Dunn, and Gerson Bautista

Part #1 represents something similar to the the Braves sending Kemp to the Dodgers...it allows the Ms to have money available 2 years from now after Bruce leaves so they can have cash available after their short rebuild. The issue with this part is the dollar amount is unknown, and reports have been as high as $60M...which is insane.

Part #2 represents the "sell the BP arm because rebuilding teams don't need elite BP arms" portion of the deal. Kelenic is a FV 50 guy worth ~$30M, but as a recent #6 pick an argument could be made that some organizations are higher on him than that. Dunn is a FV 45+ worth something around $6M. Bautista is FV 40 filler worth very little. The Mets are sending at most ~$40M in prospect value for 4 cost controlled seasons of an elite 2-3 win BP arm.

The recent Ms moves are an odd mix of long term rebuild and short term retooling. They are all over the place with no apparent overall plan.

The main piece of the return from the Mets is Kelenic, who won't be ready for 3-4 seasons, yet the goal of the dumping Cano is to have money freed up in 2 years. Trading for Mallex was a move to get cheaper while still having a "now" player. The return for Paxton was 2 pitchers who will be ready for MLB action very early in 2019.

Could the Braves beat the offer of Kelenic plus filler for Diaz? Would the Braves want to give up Riley/Waters plus Muller/Wentz? Are the Ms so desperate to move Cano (who wants to be in NY) that nothing else matters?
 
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clvclv said:
If they actually do move Syndergaard to the Padres, they wouldn't necessarily need to. Rather than complicating the deal with the Ms even further in an attempt to get Mallex included (which would have been even more stupid on Dipoto's part), the whispered Syndergaard deal with San Diego might suddenly make sense if the Mutts are still trying to compete now. Rather than moving Bruce to 1B and putting Mallex in CF, they get their CF from San Diego in Margot, along with Hedges and a ready 55 FV SP prospect in Paddack, hope to get by with Smith at 1B (or maybe even add a fairly cheap stopgap there like Matt Adams, Duda, etc. until they call Alonso up), sign another SP and RP in the second-tier to be Diaz' setup guy and use McNeil as their super-sub...

CF- Margot, RF- Nimmo, 2B- Cano, 3B- Frazier, LF- Conforto, C- Hedges, 1B- Smith (Adams/Duda/etc. until they call up Alonso), SS- Rosario

Plawecki, McNeil, Lagares, ??? (with Cespedes back around midseason)

deGrom, Corbin/Keuchel/Happ, Wheeler, Matz, Paddack/Vargas

Diaz, FA RP, Lugo, Gsellman, etc.

Would be pretty crowded in the OF if/when Cespedes gets back, but that's not a terrible problem to have.
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Trading away Thor and then giving a worse and older FA pitcher 5+ years is something I really hope the Mets are dumb enough to do.
 
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