2018 Offseason And Targets

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BeanieAntics said:
This is the type of move that I really like. Find a player who excels at one or two things, but has a fixable problem holding him back. A smart organization identifies that, realizes other teams are undervaluing that asset, and then acquires that player with the thought of fixing him and getting a 3+ win player for cheap. Teams like the Dodgers and Red Sox do stuff like this a ton. Chris Taylor, Kike Hernandez, Max Muncy, Steve Pearce, Mitch Moreland... To one degree or another, those guys were all undervalued assets that just needed a smart organization to identify their problems and tap into their potential.

As a result, the Dodgers and the Red Sox have built incredibly deep offenses that have a lot of versatility. The Rays obviously won't be able to do it to the degree of those teams, but they can still acquire plenty of quality players for cheap like that. I kind of think that was the angle that AA was going for when he traded for Duvall and it just hasn't worked out yet. I bet he keeps working with Duvall to see if he can unlock a little extra out of him. But I expect moves similar to this from us in the future.
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This is another reason why I think nsacpi is on to something when he suggests we trade for a Max Kepler type. Instead of acquiring just one more outfield bat that is really good, maybe we should look for guys who may currently be undervalued and acquire a number of them cheaply. Kepler isn't really a reclamation guy or anything, he was a 2.6 win player last year. But I do think its possible we acquire him for less than he is worth and try to tap in to 3+ win potential. The benefit of that approach is that you have a better chance of building offensive depth and you preserve more of your future flexibility.

I think that'd be a reasonable approach to the offense this offseason if you believe that Acuna/Albies/Freeman/Donaldson is a good enough core to carry you in the event that such an approach fails.
 
BeanieAntics said:
This is another reason why I think nsacpi is on to something when he suggests we trade for a Max Kepler type. Instead of acquiring just one more outfield bat that is really good, maybe we should look for guys who may currently be undervalued and acquire a number of them cheaply. Kepler isn't really a reclamation guy or anything, he was a 2.6 win player last year. But I do think its possible we acquire him for less than he is worth and try to tap in to 3+ win potential. The benefit of that approach is that you have a better chance of building offensive depth and you preserve more of your future flexibility.

I think that'd be a reasonable approach to the offense this offseason if you believe that Acuna/Albies/Freeman/Donaldson is a good enough core to carry you in the event that such an approach fails.
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It's an approach, but generally speaking you usually see contention moves be a little more certain than addressing a major need with a question mark.

Basically, picking up Kepler is filling LF with a player that has been below average at the plate for 1600 PA. With no particularly significant split advantage.

Maybe that turns up roses, but it's an odd play. And it's not like he won't cost anything.

Seems like a move best couple with a pickup of a better offensive player.
 
BeanieAntics said:
This is the type of move that I really like. Find a player who excels at one or two things, but has a fixable problem holding him back. A smart organization identifies that, realizes other teams are undervaluing that asset, and then acquires that player with the thought of fixing him and getting a 3+ win player for cheap. Teams like the Dodgers and Red Sox do stuff like this a ton. Chris Taylor, Kike Hernandez, Max Muncy, Steve Pearce, Mitch Moreland... To one degree or another, those guys were all undervalued assets that just needed a smart organization to identify their problems and tap into their potential.

As a result, the Dodgers and the Red Sox have built incredibly deep offenses that have a lot of versatility. The Rays obviously won't be able to do it to the degree of those teams, but they can still acquire plenty of quality players for cheap like that. I kind of think that was the angle that AA was going for when he traded for Duvall and it just hasn't worked out yet. I bet he keeps working with Duvall to see if he can unlock a little extra out of him. But I expect moves similar to this from us in the future.
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Which is fine, and all the more reason I'm in favor of Riley and Camargo getting time on the grass - and getting a Claw for Riley and Jenista.

It's also why I thought Julio for Scooter Gennett wouldn't be a bad idea - roughly even money, and you could probably get by with a Gennett/Camargo platoon in LF (with their extra versatility when needed) and have all the money that's left for one of the higher-end pen arms or a TOR upgrade if AA found one worth making a play on.
 
Enscheff said:
From MLBTR:

"The Yankees are asking for “high-end Major League talent” in exchange for Sonny Gray"

Who exactly do the Yankees think they are trading?
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I think this rumor has to be off base a bit. The Yankees aren't so dumb as to think that one year of Sonny Gray at a salary that can't be classified as a bargain will bring much in trade. If I'm AA, I might offer someone like Allard for Gray but that's more because I'm not very high on Allard.

There's no way the Yankees are that delusional. Even the dumbest teams in baseball would know better than to pay that price for Gray.
 
clvclv said:
Which is fine, and all the more reason I'm in favor of Riley and Camargo getting time on the grass - and getting a Claw for Riley and Jenista.

It's also why I thought Julio for Scooter Gennett wouldn't be a bad idea - roughly even money, and you could probably get by with a Gennett/Camargo platoon in LF (with their extra versatility when needed) and have all the money that's left for one of the higher-end pen arms or a TOR upgrade if AA found one worth making a play on.
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I think Gennett is worth quite a bit more than Teheran though isn't he?
 
striker42 said:
I think this rumor has to be off base a bit. The Yankees aren't so dumb as to think that one year of Sonny Gray at a salary that can't be classified as a bargain will bring much in trade. If I'm AA, I might offer someone like Allard for Gray but that's more because I'm not very high on Allard.

There's no way the Yankees are that delusional. Even the dumbest teams in baseball would know better than to pay that price for Gray.
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I would have traded Allard for Gray yesterday.
 
Bowman’s latest tries to cast Gray as a TOR option, exactly as I predicted would be the case.

I still see him as the most likely SP to be acquired. Once that dialogue starts it will naturally shift to potentially include Frazier.
 
zbhargrove said:
I would think Ottavino and Britton would be cheaper but I also suck with estimations on the reliever market... I would like one of those guys but still want Minter closing unless he struggles
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I think both get alot more actually.

Ottavino 3/36+ and Britton 3/40+ imo.
 
https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-remain-patient-as-winter-meetings-end/c-301839848

1. Front-line starter: Gray was a bust in the Bronx, but the 2.84 ERA produced in 18 road starts while wearing pinstripes strengthens the argument he might just need a change of scenery. It seems unlikely Kluber will be dealt and it must be remembered Bauer never posted a sub-4.00 ERA before this year. Madison Bumgarner likely won't be dealt this winter, and the Braves have never shown interest in the cost it would take to sign Dallas Keuchel or acquire Zack Greinke from the D-backs.

As I’ve said, Gray seems like the most likely target. The “he really is a front line pitcher” narrative has already begun.
 
Enscheff said:
https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-remain-patient-as-winter-meetings-end/c-301839848

1. Front-line starter: Gray was a bust in the Bronx, but the 2.84 ERA produced in 18 road starts while wearing pinstripes strengthens the argument he might just need a change of scenery. It seems unlikely Kluber will be dealt and it must be remembered Bauer never posted a sub-4.00 ERA before this year. Madison Bumgarner likely won't be dealt this winter, and the Braves have never shown interest in the cost it would take to sign Dallas Keuchel or acquire Zack Greinke from the D-backs.

As I’ve said, Gray seems like the most likely target. The “he really is a front line pitcher” narrative has already begun.
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I don't really understand how you mention him in the same breath as Kluber or even Bumgarner.

I guess he's a reasonable buy-low candidate for backing into 3 WAR if you look at his FIP and then apply the National League discount.

But anyone thinking that addresses the front end of the rotation should stay the hell out of Vegas. It's a possible upgrade on Teheran. That's the way I'd look at it. Only worth doing is the price is negligible.
 
Enscheff said:
https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-remain-patient-as-winter-meetings-end/c-301839848

1. Front-line starter: Gray was a bust in the Bronx, but the 2.84 ERA produced in 18 road starts while wearing pinstripes strengthens the argument he might just need a change of scenery. It seems unlikely Kluber will be dealt and it must be remembered Bauer never posted a sub-4.00 ERA before this year. Madison Bumgarner likely won't be dealt this winter, and the Braves have never shown interest in the cost it would take to sign Dallas Keuchel or acquire Zack Greinke from the D-backs.

As I’ve said, Gray seems like the most likely target. The “he really is a front line pitcher” narrative has already begun.
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I am surprised Bowman got this right (must be straight from his sources): "Nicholas Castellanos' bat is intriguing, but Ender Inciarte's tremendous range is not enough to offset the defensive inefficiencies of Castellanos, who ranks as the game's worst outfielder per Statcast™'s Outs Above Average metric."

I thought it rather funny some that thought my Jose Martinez suggestion was bad were fine with Nick Castellanos, lol. And that doesn't even factor in that he'd also cost more in a trade and in payroll.

That said, I am not interested in Sonny Gray.
 
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Braves1976 said:
I am surprised Bowman got this right (must be straight from his sources): "Nicholas Castellanos' bat is intriguing, but Ender Inciarte's tremendous range is not enough to offset the defensive inefficiencies of Castellanos, who ranks as the game's worst outfielder per Statcast™'s Outs Above Average metric."

I thought it rather funny some that thought my Jose Martinez suggestion was bad were fine with Nick Castellanos, lol. And that doesn't even factor in that he'd also cost more in a trade and in payroll.

That said, I am not interested in Sonny Gray.
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Jose Martinez is better in the outfield than Castellanos. I think he'd have been a very reasonable target for the bench or for that LF role. He's an absolute butcher at first, it appears though.
 
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