2018 Offseason And Targets

Status
Not open for further replies.
DuWRUYqWoAAm9ax.jpg:large


This is from Heyman, not sure how legit this is but take it for whatever. Slow news day and boring winter meetings.
 
thewupk said:
Sure I would only want Gray as a buy low option. But I would peg him higher than most on that list you provided.

A lot of things can change though. If we can move Newk/Julio for the right deal or a group of our young pitchers for an OF upgrade then more depth at SP is preferred. So there are scenarios where getting Gray makes sense. Thinking he is the missing piece to lead the rotation is not one of them. I do think he is better than his overall numbers in 2018 .
Click to expand...

Maybe slightly higher - IF he somehow stays healthy for the first time in years AND doesn't crumble under the pressure of being sold as the guy AA went out and gave really good prospects for to front the rotation with Folty (much like he was sold as such an important piece to Yankee fans when they first got him). It's a little bit of personal preference, and I don't disagree that several years ago I'd have agreed that Gray had more upside than any of the guys I listed not named Gohara - but is it REALLY worth it to pay anything close to Cashman's current rumored asking price for a minimal upgrade if you're only getting Gray for one year?

That's the type of all-in move I don't have problems with - once you've "fixed" everything else. With Duvall as your current LF option and the exact same bullpen that was so bad last season, how much better does Gray make you? Say he actually (surprisingly) returns to that 3 win Pitcher everyone thinks he could bounce back to if he gets out of NY. Does that really move the needle any when you could rotate Soroka, Touki, Fried, Gohara, and Wright through the #5 slot and at least have a 2 win Pitcher there? If we already had a Closer you feel like you can count on (wouldn't even have to be one of the big names - I'd be fine with Soria or Allen who can give you dominant stretches and allow you to use Viz, Minter, and Sobotka as fallback options when they're cold) and an "answer" in LF (whether that "answer" is Brantley, Pollock, Peralta, or Pederson wouldn't matter either) and you're sold that Gray would at least be your #2 and push everyone else down a slot, I'd be fine with it.

I just don't think Gray currently makes enough of a difference to even sneeze at by himself - like I said, that could change in a hurry if Frazier came with him and you could make a fair value deal for the two of them while also being able to dump Julio's salary so you could upgrade the pen.
 
clvclv said:
Maybe slightly higher - IF he somehow stays healthy for the first time in years AND doesn't crumble under the pressure of being sold as the guy AA went out and gave really good prospects for to front the rotation with Folty (much like he was sold as such an important piece to Yankee fans when they first got him). It's a little bit of personal preference, and I don't disagree that several years ago I'd have agreed that Gray had more upside than any of the guys I listed not named Gohara - but is it REALLY worth it to pay anything close to Cashman's current rumored asking price for a minimal upgrade if you're only getting Gray for one year?

That's the type of all-in move I don't have problems with - once you've "fixed" everything else. With Duvall as your current LF option and the exact same bullpen that was so bad last season, how much better does Gray make you? Say he actually (surprisingly) returns to that 3 win Pitcher everyone thinks he could bounce back to if he gets out of NY. Does that really move the needle any when you could rotate Soroka, Touki, Fried, Gohara, and Wright through the #5 slot and at least have a 2 win Pitcher there? If we already had a Closer you feel like you can count on (wouldn't even have to be one of the big names - I'd be fine with Soria or Allen who can give you dominant stretches and allow you to use Viz, Minter, and Sobotka as fallback options when they're cold) and an "answer" in LF (whether that "answer" is Brantley, Pollock, Peralta, or Pederson wouldn't matter either) and you're sold that Gray would at least be your #2 and push everyone else down a slot, I'd be fine with it.

I just don't think Gray currently makes enough of a difference to even sneeze at by himself - like I said, that could change in a hurry if Frazier came with him and you could make a fair value deal for the two of them while also being able to dump Julio's salary so you could upgrade the pen.
Click to expand...

Well no one that is advocating getting Gray is proposing we give up much for him so there's that
 
thewupk said:
Your preference is your preference but 2.8 and 3.3 still grade out to 3 war.
Click to expand...

That's fine. As I've said before, I'm ok calling them both 3 WAR pitchers. But the notion that Gray is a much better pitcher than Porcello is silly and not supported by facts. And if you had to bet on one pitcher producing 3 WAR or better next season, it shouldn't be the guy that hasn't pitched more than 160 innings or more in 3 years and is coming off a pretty poor season.
 
Last edited:
Heyward said:
DuWRUYqWoAAm9ax.jpg:large


This is from Heyman, not sure how legit this is but take it for whatever. Slow news day and boring winter meetings.
Click to expand...

A series of moves that gets the Braves:

1. JTR for Flowers, Riley and a pitcher
2. Gray for minimal prospect value

And then one of:
3a. Haniger for Newk plus more
3b. Frazier for pitching
3c. Brantley on a 3-4 year deal
3d. Puig at a good value

Ends up being a very solid off season, though getting Gray probably means they don’t have enough money to sign Brantley.

If Newk goes in a trade, Gray makes more sense than he does now.
 
Last edited:
clvclv said:
Maybe slightly higher - IF he somehow stays healthy for the first time in years AND doesn't crumble under the pressure of being sold as the guy AA went out and gave really good prospects for to front the rotation with Folty (much like he was sold as such an important piece to Yankee fans when they first got him). It's a little bit of personal preference, and I don't disagree that several years ago I'd have agreed that Gray had more upside than any of the guys I listed not named Gohara - but is it REALLY worth it to pay anything close to Cashman's current rumored asking price for a minimal upgrade if you're only getting Gray for one year?

That's the type of all-in move I don't have problems with - once you've "fixed" everything else. With Duvall as your current LF option and the exact same bullpen that was so bad last season, how much better does Gray make you? Say he actually (surprisingly) returns to that 3 win Pitcher everyone thinks he could bounce back to if he gets out of NY. Does that really move the needle any when you could rotate Soroka, Touki, Fried, Gohara, and Wright through the #5 slot and at least have a 2 win Pitcher there? If we already had a Closer you feel like you can count on (wouldn't even have to be one of the big names - I'd be fine with Soria or Allen who can give you dominant stretches and allow you to use Viz, Minter, and Sobotka as fallback options when they're cold) and an "answer" in LF (whether that "answer" is Brantley, Pollock, Peralta, or Pederson wouldn't matter either) and you're sold that Gray would at least be your #2 and push everyone else down a slot, I'd be fine with it.

I just don't think Gray currently makes enough of a difference to even sneeze at by himself - like I said, that could change in a hurry if Frazier came with him and you could make a fair value deal for the two of them while also being able to dump Julio's salary so you could upgrade the pen.
Click to expand...


Gray was injured in 2016 and the 1st month of 2017. Hasn't been on the DL at any other point in his career. So I'm pretty confident he can be healthy in 2018 as much as you can have confidence in any pitcher.

Nobody is even suggesting to come close to Cashmans rumored asking price

Depth is always good in your starting rotation. But if the Braves plan to keep all of their current starters then no it doesn't make sense. But when there are plenty of ideas of moving Julio for payroll, Newk + prospects for an OF upgrade or Realmuto then that depth can evaporate pretty quick.
 
Enscheff said:
A series of moves that gets the Braves:

1. JTR for Flowers, Riley and a pitcher
2. Gray for minimal prospect value

And then one of:
3a. Haniger for Newk plus more
3b. Frazier for pitching
3c. Brantley on a 3-4 year deal
3d. Puig at a good value

Ends up being a very solid off season, though getting Gray probably means they don’t have enough money to sign Brantley.

If Newk goes in a trade, Gray makes more sense than he does now.
Click to expand...


Find a way to dump Julio
 
Carp said:
That's fine. As I've said before, I'm ok calling them both 3 WAR pitchers. But the notion that Gray is a much better pitcher than Porcello is silly and not supported by facts. And if you had to bet on one pitcher producing 3 WAR or better next season, it shouldn't be the guy that hasn't pitched more than 160 innings or more in 3 years and is coming off a pretty poor season.
Click to expand...

Okay much better was not accurate and a bit strong. But I'd argue the raw stuff is much better. Also Gray was only injured for one period. Everything else was inning limiting
 
I am hoping we get Realmuto for a price I like, that we re-sign Sanchez and trade Teheran, and add one of Brantley, Martinez or Puig in the OF. Plus I still hope AA is asking about Simmons from the Angels and would trade a package of Newcomb and Swanson to get him.
 
thewupk said:
Find a way to dump Julio
Click to expand...

I'm starting to wonder just how far we'd go in order to dump Julio. That extra 10 milli could help a good bit. I wonder if we'd be willing to find some rebuilding team and give them a C level prospect to take on Julio's contract. It probably depends on whether or not we have a move in mind that would push us out of our financial comfort zone.
 
[TW]1073728547045412865[/TW] DOB just tweeted this out and quickly deleted it. Obviously meant to be a DM but is causing rampant speculation on twitter
 
That's a good way for DOB to mess up his limited connections... its probably nothing but if it is sounds like a typical AA move that no one saw coming
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top