2020 Field
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
really?
there is a pretty big literature on the incidence of the costs of various employer provided benefits...you might want to take a look
your claim is akin to a Canadian saying...I pay basically nothing for medical care thanks to the government, what a deal
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sturg33
I
But the government isn't providing me my health care.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
the point is that someone is paying for it...no such thing as a free lunch
and that someone in the case of employer provided benefits is largely the employee...there is a lot of research on this...benefits are a form of compensation...and higher benefits squeeze down take home pay...so whether you realize it or not your take home pay reflects the benefits package provided by your employer...you may be happy with the deal...but it aint free
recently a large company announced 20 weeks of paid maternity leave for both fathers and mothers...it received massive applause especially from its employees...very progressive...but i wonder if the employees realize who pays for such benefits...paid maternity leave is a form of compensation and the studies that have been done show that much of the cost of such compensation is born by employees in the form of lower take home pay
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Where does this claim come from that your health care options will be substantially worse? Can you back it up?
And if your employer is paying almost all of your insurance costs, that is still money that they cannot allocate to the employees. Either way, you're missing out on money. Surely you must realize this?
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
seems like a rather obvious point...no such thing as a free lunch...people may be happy with the lunch being provided by their employer, but it aint free
sturg33
I
Lol I obviously know that my employer benefits are not free.
What I also know is that I dont trust' like Mr. Sanders does, that I'll receive 100% of the health care costs as salary in M4A fairyland.
I also dont trust the government can do a better job of providing me great healthcare options like my employer can, which gives me about 12 options of different plans that I can choose from based on particular needs.
I also dont trust that our healthcare will be in better shape with M4A... as hospitals today currently cannot stay in business on medicare rates.
And there is no world in which I will get better or equal healthcare than I have now, for cheaper costs.
What I also know is that I dont trust' like Mr. Sanders does, that I'll receive 100% of the health care costs as salary in M4A fairyland.
I also dont trust the government can do a better job of providing me great healthcare options like my employer can, which gives me about 12 options of different plans that I can choose from based on particular needs.
I also dont trust that our healthcare will be in better shape with M4A... as hospitals today currently cannot stay in business on medicare rates.
And there is no world in which I will get better or equal healthcare than I have now, for cheaper costs.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
You're right to be skeptical about what Sanders and Warren are promising. But our medical care system is not perfect. There is lots of room for improvement. For reducing administrative costs. For removing perverse incentives.
I posted earlier about my doctor being startled when I asked for a cheaper generic statin. It didn't affect me since my insurance pays for either the more expensive or cheaper statins. The doctor billed the more expensive one. Maybe it is a little better. But mostly because he has a financial stake in doing this. That's perverse.
sturg33
I
Umm... this ain't it, chief
sturg33
I
Our healthcare system is far from perfect because we have this awful hybrid model.
But I get annoyed when people want 1. Life saving cures. 2. Developed for free.
It doesnt work like that.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Public policy involves making choices. Some people may have an immature conception and think otherwise. But with respect to healthcare I think we have overincentived the development of expensive new treatments. I don't want progress in medical knowledge to stop. But I think we can reduce those incentives and find a better place for society as a whole.
sturg33
I
I'm not willing to make that tradeoff of sacrificing innovative health care in favor of big brother government having more control over my life.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
you know there are conservative market oriented ideas for improving our medical care system...it isn't just Bernie Sanders vs the status quo...that's a sterile dichotomy that as a society we need to move beyond
the late great Martin Feldstein had some very good proposals for improving the system...google him if you want to see some good ideas
57Brave
Well-known member
In order for M4A to become law would require at least 2 more years of debates , proposals,counter proposals, more discussion and more discussion.
Other ideas like nsa said
As opposed to the status quo. Where you as a 30ish in good health are not subject to insulin or epipens over charges.
Yet
Hate to bring it up again but your narrow view reminds me the saw "everyone is a Libertarian until their house is 10' under water"
In this case, looking down the barrel of out of control medical bills and uber inflated drug pricing.
Should you or your bride be diagnosed with a catastrophic disease, you trust your insurer to support you all the way through?
My 2nd hand experience says don't hold your breath
I have yet to hear proposals from you or the people that represent you at the table.
At this point Sen Sanders is kinda like the Phillies and Bryce Harper, bidding against himself
Other ideas like nsa said
As opposed to the status quo. Where you as a 30ish in good health are not subject to insulin or epipens over charges.
Yet
Hate to bring it up again but your narrow view reminds me the saw "everyone is a Libertarian until their house is 10' under water"
In this case, looking down the barrel of out of control medical bills and uber inflated drug pricing.
Should you or your bride be diagnosed with a catastrophic disease, you trust your insurer to support you all the way through?
My 2nd hand experience says don't hold your breath
I have yet to hear proposals from you or the people that represent you at the table.
At this point Sen Sanders is kinda like the Phillies and Bryce Harper, bidding against himself
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sturg33
I
I promise you. I'll never adopt the mentality that my challenges will be the responsibility of others
It's a losers mentality
57Brave
Well-known member
You buy into health,life and property insurance as we speak , your answer to how you would deal with a flood. Your response to health care earlier today and fairly certain there is a life insurance policy in your portfolio.
What the **** do you think insurance is ?
Should you and I by chance buy into the same insurance company --- do I have an argument to make should you file a claim for property damage ---
"oh, that isnt my property !!! And, Sturg is a loser "
Ayn Rand died with SS and Medicare
Paul Ryan grew up on SS
Kochs as we speak receive billions in tax breaks
Amazon paid zilch in taxes
But, government taxation is thievery-
Gotcha
Can we now definitively point out the TeaParty movement was a hoax ?
Just as the TrumpTrain and Trickle Down economics before that
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57Brave
Well-known member
Brian Beutler
@brianbeutler
·
39m
In 2016, anti-Trump Republicans pleaded with liberals to help them nominate a Republican
they liked better. Now they plead with liberals to nominate a Democrat they like better.
How about go fix your own movement's affinity for crooks, liars, and racists.
We didn't build that.
Mona Charen
@monacharenEPPC
· 19h
I've written a harsh column about Elizabeth Warren that will post tomorrow. But my preoccupation is with the malignancy in the Oval Office this minute. Please, Democratic party, pick someone else. It's kind of important.
@brianbeutler
·
39m
In 2016, anti-Trump Republicans pleaded with liberals to help them nominate a Republican
they liked better. Now they plead with liberals to nominate a Democrat they like better.
How about go fix your own movement's affinity for crooks, liars, and racists.
We didn't build that.
Mona Charen
@monacharenEPPC
· 19h
I've written a harsh column about Elizabeth Warren that will post tomorrow. But my preoccupation is with the malignancy in the Oval Office this minute. Please, Democratic party, pick someone else. It's kind of important.