2021 BA Top 100

klaw had a podcast today about just missed top 100. Mentioned Waters. Doesn't believe in the hit tool and says the approach is awful. 4th OF, maybe more b/c of tools.
 
langeliers made Klaw's just missed top 100. back up catcher given solid D and 15+ HR potential. Bat showed promise at alternate site. If there is a bat then you've got something.

Waters did not make his just missed list. Klaw's flag is fimly planted.
 
No matter how much you might hate Water's hitting ability, I just don't see how Law can ignore his other tools, which are pretty dang good. He doesn't have to hit very much to be a useful player. Even if he's simply Melvin Upton with the bat circa 2014, he'd still be useful as a 4th OFer based on his other skills.
 
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We know Anthopolous isn't so down on Waters that he's willing to include him willy-nilly in a Melancon/Martin-level trade. But that's much different than saying that he's unwilling to trade Waters.
 
Waters is pretty clearly a future MLB contributor. Whether he is the next Starling Marte, or a 4th OFer, he is almost certainly going to help a MLB team. We have yet to see AA trade any of those prospects.

Prospects should only be traded when another team values them more highly than the Braves. For example, if a team thinks Waters is a sure fire Starling Marte, trade him now. If all other teams see him as a 4th OFer, keep him and benefit from having a cheap 4th OFer for a few years. If another team sees Riley as the next Troy Glaus, trade him now. If everyone sees him as the next Jake Lamb, keep him and enjoy that production for a while.

A team like the Indians trying to reload on the cheap also seems like a good trade partner. Dumb teams like the Orioles, Pirates and Angels seem like a good target too. Teams trying to dump cash like the Cubs and Reds seemed like good partners. Teams like the A's and Rays seem to systemically value 1-2 win players more than the Braves, so that's why they make such good potential trade partners. I'm still surprised AA hasn't lined up with them in a trade yet. Maybe there's too much Rays-think in the Dodgers philosophy AA picked up while in LA for them to value players differently.
 
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Waters should be more valuable to a team that wants a future CF. He's got to hit enough to be a corner in ATL unless you think Pache is failing.

That said, many had the same conversation about Albies and Swanson. Some said trade Albies b/c he is much more valuable as a SS.

We do not know if AA is unwilling to move Waters. Right now AA may be unwilling to move anyone with a FV over 40 given his ATL track record. The most likely answer is waters hasn't been part of a deal where AA felt he was getting good value.
 
Carp said:
No matter how much you might hate Water's hitting ability, I just don't see how Law can ignore his other tools, which are pretty dang good. He doesn't have to hit very much to be a useful player. Even if he's simply Melvin Upton with the bat circa 2014, he'd still be useful as a 4th OFer based on his other skills.
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I'm not sure you meant 2014?
 
Carp said:
Yes. The point of that was, even if he hits that terribly, he's still useful as a bench piece while he's cheap. Even Melvin was technically a positive overall player in 2014.
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Technically below replacement in 2013, replacement level in 2014, and then guess, according to WAR, technically useful when healthy after that.


If the Braves hold Waters and he becomes ... the OF equivalent of say Charlie Culberson .... then I think they've probably mismanaged his value and should have traded him.
 
Southcack77 said:
Technically below replacement in 2013, replacement level in 2014, and then guess, according to WAR, technically useful when healthy after that.


If the Braves hold Waters and he becomes ... the OF equivalent of say Charlie Culberson .... then I think they've probably mismanaged his value and should have traded him.
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Maybe. But that's not really what I'm talking about. If a prospect has a high likelihood of being at least as valuable as Charlie Culberson, I'd call that a pretty high floor compared to most prospects. And that should hold a good amount of value given his skills also provide him with pretty high ceiling (though a much lower chance of reaching that ceiling)
 
Enscheff said:
Teams like the A's and Rays seem to systemically value 1-2 win players more than the Braves, so that's why they make such good potential trade partners. I'm still surprised AA hasn't lined up with them in a trade yet. Maybe there's too much Rays-think in the Dodgers philosophy AA picked up while in LA for them to value players differently.
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yeah, i think you hit the nail on the head with that last part. AA is trying to operate closer to how those teams operate.

plus, if i saw the Braves made a deal with Tampa, i'd assume AA got taken to the cleaners. the Rays know ****.
 
I like Waters. I root for him because he is a local kid. He has some attitude and Klaw leaving him off a list is the exact kind of thing that might motivate someone like him. I think (hope) he will be a really good player...not an All Star, but a above average every day player.
 
TheBravos said:
I like Waters. I root for him because he is a local kid. He has some attitude and Klaw leaving him off a list is the exact kind of thing that might motivate someone like him. I think (hope) he will be a really good player...not an All Star, but a above average every day player.
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god i hope there's a lot more motivating him than keith goddamn law.
 
I watched Pache closely in the postseason. He was not awed; he's got the goods. I want his starting from the get-go.
 
rico43 said:
I watched Pache closely in the postseason. He was not awed; he's got the goods. I want his starting from the get-go.
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I agree. He didn’t look overmatch or nervous at all. Service time would be the only reason to keep him down.
 
Hudson2 said:
I agree. He didn’t look overmatch or nervous at all. Service time would be the only reason to keep him down.
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The front office would have a hard time selling "he needs more time" after 1) they chose him over Inciarte as the starting CF for the post-season and 2) the way he performed on the biggest stage. If it were to come down to a grievance, those would be points that would hurt the team's case.
 
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