CyYoung31
Shift Leader
Gave you a thanks simply for the Deadwood reference.
4/27 @BOS - Knuckling Under
- Thread starter Julio3000
- Start date
Gave you a thanks simply for the Deadwood reference.
What I found amazing after binging Deadwood, is the obsession online of Wild Bill in real life. All these discussions of whether or not he knew he was gonna be assassinated and let it happen, etc.
CrimsonCowboy
Moderator
Pretty bad when the others team's broadcasters notice that. Reflects rather poorly on Gonzalez.
Andrelton Simmons 2016 salary: 6 million
Braves Team Payroll: $81,288,899 (27th out of 30 MLB clubs, the A's have a bigger payroll than ours).
Andrelton Simmons, 1 homerun
Braves Team, 3 homeruns
Andrelton at 6 million for 1 hr and glorious defense vs. ATL roster at 27 million per homerun, atrocious defense, poor pitching, and pathetic hitting.
Andrelton at .580 OPS, Freddie at .604 OPS, same homers, Andy at 17 less K's, 4 more hits, and a higher slugging %.
Freddie 2016 salary: 12 million
Tron : 6
2017
FF: 20
AS: 8
LOL, better hope Freddie's wrist issues go away. If we wanted Newcombe and Aybar that bad we could have sent Freddie there straight up.
Braves Team Payroll: $81,288,899 (27th out of 30 MLB clubs, the A's have a bigger payroll than ours).
Andrelton Simmons, 1 homerun
Braves Team, 3 homeruns
Andrelton at 6 million for 1 hr and glorious defense vs. ATL roster at 27 million per homerun, atrocious defense, poor pitching, and pathetic hitting.
Andrelton at .580 OPS, Freddie at .604 OPS, same homers, Andy at 17 less K's, 4 more hits, and a higher slugging %.
Freddie 2016 salary: 12 million
Tron : 6
2017
FF: 20
AS: 8
LOL, better hope Freddie's wrist issues go away. If we wanted Newcombe and Aybar that bad we could have sent Freddie there straight up.
I don't disagree with any of this at all. The difference is you're not out there whining about the trade every single day.
No one WANTED Andrelton traded - I haven't seen one single person say they did. Most people understand why the trade was made even though they weren't happy about it though.
My point is that Simmons' presence on THIS team would've made absolutely no difference whatsoever. This is a BAD team and it's incredibly painful to watch most of the time, but a handful of good defensive plays simply wouldn't change that. His bat continues to regress - he still doesn't walk (at all), isn't hitting for power (ISO of .084), and the only regular SSs with a lower wRC+ than Andrelton are Aybar, Brad Miller, Didi Gregorius, Alcides Escobar, Hechavarria, Jimmy Rollins, Nick Ahmed, and Danny Espinosa (who's about to be replaced).
If you think this team would win more games than it has with him at SS, you're kidding yourself. Aybar has been really bad, but (mercifully) none of us are going to have to watch him much longer.
I realize I'm in the small minority that prefers to look at the good things that are going to come out of the team's struggles, but that sure does make it easier to stomach this mess. Bourn and Swisher are gone, Blair's now here (possibly for good), Fredi's meeting with Norris on the mound (instead of Roger) last night means we're probably not going to have to watch him much longer, and Aybar's struggles are going to lead to another piece of the future being called up sooner rather than later. Even Olivera's likely played his last game as a Brave. Slowly but surely the players no one wanted are disappearing.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It is also worth mentioning that the criticism of the Simmons trade is not just an ex post thing. A number of us complained at the time of the trade that the return was light. We also pointed out the holes in logic of acquiring Aybar when we would not be playing for anything this year. Is it fair to bring up Coppolella's strange reasoning about Aybar? I think so, given that it goes to the question of whether the FO is capable of formulating and adhering to a plan.
striker42
Well-known member
I just wonder how much longer they can leave this team in Gonzalez's hands. We're not even a month into the season and the team is already prone to phoning games in.
And it's not like this is the first time either. Braves have a history of phoning it in under this guy.
dak
Well-known member
Personally, I would trade Newcomb and Ellis today for Andrelton, then would patiently look for opportunities to trade Andrelton over the next 18 months or so when both Albies and Swanson are ready. Also, there's a chance that Swanson's bat will play at 3B (seems like his arm plays at 3B already) and we'd have a place for all 3 of these guys.
I don't think the Braves got fleeced in the Angels trade, but they simply didn't get appropriate value in the return given that they had ALL the leverage. In my view, they undervalued Simmons a bit, and overvalued Newcomb a bit. Newcomb is a high-risk asset. I'd be thrilled if Newcomb could become Matt Moore . . . high K rate, high BB rate, gives you 5-6 IP per start and a 3.5 to 4.0 ERA. Looking at his track record, I think that's the type of production we should plan on getting from him if he "turns out" and isn't a bust.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I remember there were claims (not by the FO but some of the posiBraves around here) that Newcomb was almost ready and would start the season in AAA and be in the majors by mid-season. I'm glad the FO is not rushing him. The guy has a lot of work to do to refine his command. Last year in his 7 AA starts he had strikeout and walk rates of 9.75% and 6.00%. In his 4 starts this year, he is at 8.55% and 6.30%. Those walk rates have to be cut in half. The strikeout rate is not elite either. Lucas Sims (who also has issues with the walk rate) posted a much better strikeout rate in his AA starts--10.57% in 9 starts lasts year and 15.95% in 3 starts this year.
So what you're saying is we on this board were so unified in a collective vow...
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think he wants us to take a collective vow of silence.
Far from it. It'd just be nice to see other discussions about things that can be done moving forward rather than constant whining about things that can't be changed. Some people still like to bitch about the Tex trade around here. I've got a niece who was in the 2nd grade when that trade was made who's driving now.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I get it. We all get cases of ex-Braveitis and Simmons was popular. I was torn on him because I think his offense is going to continue to slide and even with the leverage we had with him, if he turns out to be a low-.600 OPS guy, the market for him was probably going to get softer. I fear that he may have turned into a guy that only two or three teams would target. My guess is that is why he was moved when he was moved. If we hold onto Simmons, we probably lose a few games 5-2 instead of 6-2. His defense is spectacular at a premium position, but unless his bat comes back (and it's early in the season), he's what I would call a luxury player.
I don't think anyone saw Aybar playing as miserably as he has played. Looks like Atlanta is not a good town for either of the Aybar brothers.
As for ex-Braveitis, I kind of keep mine to myself. There are players I liked that were shipped out and I know there are guys now on other teams that other posters liked. All I ask for is logic from the front office. This isn't an exact science so they are going to miss on guys; both the ones they trade away and the ones they acquire.
I don't think anyone saw Aybar playing as miserably as he has played. Looks like Atlanta is not a good town for either of the Aybar brothers.
As for ex-Braveitis, I kind of keep mine to myself. There are players I liked that were shipped out and I know there are guys now on other teams that other posters liked. All I ask for is logic from the front office. This isn't an exact science so they are going to miss on guys; both the ones they trade away and the ones they acquire.
I don't think it diminishes the quality overall of the board.
We have tons of active discussion throughout the day in regards to this draft, next year's draft, our guys in the minors etc.
The ML club has given us nothing to be excited about with the exceptions of Wisler and Viz. Naturally we're gonna continue to vent about losing fan favorites. Notice it's more Heyward and Simmons and not Justin, Gattis, and even Kimbrel.
Nsacpi just made a thread about Adonis and I'm expecting another huge thread from him about another specialized topic.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Truthfully, I was fine with dealing Simmons and I loved watching him play short, but this team is going to be bad for a couple years (at least) so whats his purpose? Why do you need an elite defensive SS who can't hit on a team like this?
I think the FO decided that Simmons was going to keep regressing or at least not get better with the bat while his contract kept getting more expensive -- which in turn was going to limit his value to other teams -- and they're probably right in that aspect.
I thought the return was just OK, not great, but I get it; Newcombe is highly regarded in the industry and IF he can harness the stuff you get a #2 type pitcher; that type of potential isn't cheap. Ellis is a solid prospect and currently pitching very well in AA. The FO thought Aybar would be OK and they were going to flip him at the deadline, they obviously missed the boat there.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
my problem, is that when we traded Kimbrel and Tron, there was no point in keeping FF.. I get we are bad this year.. should see a light next year, but still no chance.. Why not trade FF and free up that money (which is most important for rebuilding team) plus get at least 2 quality hitting prospects..
That being said, I was reading the taxpayer article about the Liberty Media 'trade' for the Braves.. and there was language written by owners that Liberty would keep payroll around where it was when they acquired the Braves (~80) So I wonder if Dumping FF would have made that a violation.. I don't know that answer..
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Valid points. I've seen the same thing with a lot of franchises. It's been decided that Freeman is now the face of the franchise so you have to hang onto him for that reason. I agree that doesn't make a ton of sense at a level.
This really has to be as close to hell on Earth for Freeman as he ever could imagine. Curious to see if they shop him at the deadline.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
yuge...that's what all my threads are