Ok. I guess saying "he didn't have a 1st round pick because he pissed it away" is a much bigger red mark than it is a defense, to me.
Acuna to AAA
- Thread starter mqt
- Start date
Ok. I guess saying "he didn't have a 1st round pick because he pissed it away" is a much bigger red mark than it is a defense, to me.
Heyward and Upton had a year left though, and that group had come off a 79-win season. They were only going to be "cheap" for one more year. Also, Upton made over $14MM in 2014. Not exactly cheap. It's not like he was a 2nd or 3rd year player with control left making peanuts.
Plus, we traded this FOR Upton & CJ:
Drury
Delgado
Prado
Over the 3-year period we had Upton he put up a 10.4 fWAR. CJ had 2.7 (driven by his HUGE outlier year). Prado had a 7.4 in the same period. Delgado 1.2. Drury was a prospect who didn't get major time until last year (but at 1.2 this year, FWIW). So IMO, that trade isn't even a huge win if you look at WAR. And we did well on trading just one year of Upton.
And I'd argue that outlier year for CJ actually ended up being painful long-term, because Wren signed him to a dumb extension. Wren was not a good GM.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I see your bad Glavine signing and raise you a Hector Olivera
You must be nearly as unhappy as the blackjack dealing genius. When was the last time you laughed at a joke?
but he wasn't really the reason they were good.
sturg33
I
OK.. I give up. You hate Wren.
I'll end this conversation knowing he was the GM of many really talented teams, and drafted/acquired all but one piece we moved to accelebrate our rebuild, and signed our two best prospect in our system.
and i raise cj and lowe and kk and melvin.
but again glavine relates to the draft defense very directly.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I raise you Markakis, Kemp, colon, Simmons, and our wonderful won loss the last 3 years
GM of talented teams he didn't have much input into. Didn't draft or sign the biggest piece of the rebuild. Didn't leave any kind of farm depth but I certainly give him credit for Albies and Acuna.
You're right, I don't like Wren. But that's because his moves as a GM produced mainly poor results and left the franchise in a hole.
See, I credit Wren for some of the win/loss the last three years. He left a farm system devoid of any MLB-ready talent. We could've kept Upton and Heyward for a prettier W/L in 2015 but then be more screwed for the now and the future.
Markakis and Colon aren't anywhere near the level of any of the guys I mentioned for Wren. Colon was a 1-yr deal, Markakis hasn't been even close to as bad (Lowe was making more money and was a dumpster fire day one until he was gone).
Two things here. One, your assertion that playing games will make it certain they won't extend is utter nonsense. Feel free to name me 4-5 players (hell, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head) that refused to resign with their original club because of that. MadBum and Posey are two that I can think of off the top of my head that prove you dead wrong on that (among a crapload of others).
The second thing is keeping a player in AA for a full year is not "playing games with player's service clocks", it's called normal development, particularly for a player under 20. What the Braves are doing actually is abnormal compared to pretty much every other franchise. Players getting pushed 3 levels in one year, even top 10 prospects is not normal. Having Acuna spend half the year at A ball and half the year at AA, then spending a month or two at AAA next year before being called up would be normal, not playing games with service time.
And when the Braves do stupid stuff of course it's going to be talked about, you think fans are going to give the franchise a break when they make really dumb moves that hurt the team simply because they think it's the right thing to do? They were wrong about bringing Swanson up, why should I think they are right when they are being super aggressive now?
All I know is we made the playoffs under Wren thrice and should have been 4-5.
I miss those fun summers of winning. Thanks Wren for overseeing those years we were awesome.
I miss those fun summers of winning. Thanks Wren for overseeing those years we were awesome.
Just wading into this; but I was thrilled when Wren left.
The farm system had completely fallen off and you can't win sustainably like that when you don't have an enormous payroll. The FA signings, the mediocre drafting, he just wasn't a very good GM. Not terrible, but not very good.
Jury is still out on Coppy, but I'm happy with the overall direction and like more of his moves than I hate.
The farm system had completely fallen off and you can't win sustainably like that when you don't have an enormous payroll. The FA signings, the mediocre drafting, he just wasn't a very good GM. Not terrible, but not very good.
Jury is still out on Coppy, but I'm happy with the overall direction and like more of his moves than I hate.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
So does he also get credit for the rebuild of the farm system that resulted from the poor won/loss of recent years and trading away of major league players like Kimbrel, Simmons, Gattis, Wood and Upton.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I don't understand how Eloy is ranked higher than Acuna. Acuna has better stats at a higher level at a younger age.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Wren was our GM and isn't anymore. He did some good things and did some bad things. Coppy has done some good things and some bad things. Let it go everyone.
sturg33
I
Fine, then call Epstein a bad GM bc he is depleting their farm system.
Since the major league team doesn't matter