Around Baseball Offseason Thread

praeceps93 said:
I think that would be a very solid option. He could probably be had for a 1 year/8 mil with 10 mil team option at this point. Would probably mean us dumping one of Bonifacio/Johnson/Beckham, but that's not exactly a problem. He and Austin Jackson are both solid ideas for bargain players we could grab.
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I was just about to post about Jackson as well. He would be the perfect RHed compliment to Inciarte in CF. OK, maybe not perfect, but he would be a good low cost addition. If The Braves signed both Freese and Jackson, the roster suddenly shapes up like this:

CF - Inciarte (L)/Jackson (R)
RF - Markakis
LF - Olivera (R)/KJ (L)
3B - Freese (R)/KJ (L)
SS - Aybar (S)/ Castro (R)
2B - Peterson (L)/Beckham (R)/KJ (L)
1B - Freeman (L)
C - AJP (L)/Flowers (R)

That roster has many platoon options, and KJ can be moved around the diamond to give guys time off as required.

It certainly isn't a good offense, but if deployed correctly, it could be an average offense. And that would obviously be a huge upgrade for the Braves.
 
Enscheff said:
I was just about to post about Jackson as well. He would be the perfect RHed compliment to Inciarte in CF. OK, maybe not perfect, but he would be a good low cost addition. If The Braves signed both Freese and Jackson, the roster suddenly shapes up like this:

CF - Inciarte (L)/Jackson (R)
RF - Markakis
LF - Olivera (R)/KJ (L)
3B - Freese (R)/KJ (L)
SS - Aybar (S)/ Castro (R)
2B - Peterson (L)/Beckham (R)/KJ (L)
1B - Freeman (L)
C - AJP (L)/Flowers (R)

That roster has many platoon options, and KJ can be moved around the diamond to give guys time off as required.

It certainly isn't a good offense, but if deployed correctly, it could be an average offense. And that would obviously be a huge upgrade for the Braves.
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I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing for the Braves to try to platoon their way to average anything. I prefer the chance at another top 3 pick than, perhaps, picking up a marginal prospect or two at the deadline (if the argument is for trading these average platoon pieces).
 
chop2chip said:
I don't know if it's necessarily a good thing for the Braves to try to platoon their way to average anything. I prefer the chance at another top 3 pick, then perhaps picking up a marginal prospect or two at the deadline (if the argument is for trading these average platoon pieces).
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I think the FO thinks they have a Freese type player in Adonis already. He can probably give the same amount of offensive production at a much, much cheaper cost. Defensively, he will be pretty bad most likely. then why are we going after Jackson? why would we intentionally damage Ender's value... If he plays against lefties then he COULD hurt his value.. but at least he has a shot. if we go straight to a platoon, we CERTAINLY hurt his value.. We already have plenty of bench/backup OF at this moment.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I think the FO thinks they have a Freese type player in Adonis already. He can probably give the same amount of offensive production at a much, much cheaper cost. Defensively, he will be pretty bad most likely. then why are we going after Jackson? why would we intentionally damage Ender's value... If he plays against lefties then he COULD hurt his value.. but at least he has a shot. if we go straight to a platoon, we CERTAINLY hurt his value.. We already have plenty of bench/backup OF at this moment.
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I'm going to go ahead and assume there is a 100% chance Inciarte hurts his value more by playing everyday and being terrible vs LHers because that's almost certainly what is going to happen. If the team was interested in maximizing his value to the organization they would trade him now when his value is at it's peak. Since it appears they want to use him as a future piece of the team, they may as well deploy him properly as the long side of a platoon.

I won't even comment on Adonis being at Freese's level other than to say it is patently absurd to suggest he will even be half the player Freese is.

The idea behind getting Freese and Jackson is to make the offense good enough to have a chance at 80+ wins and an outside shot at a playoff spot. However, if Freese is signed to a crazy good contract like 1 year $8M with 2 option years, he could become a very valuable trade piece. He is the definition of league average, but the Braves have proven just how hard those types of players can be to acquire, especially at an affordable price.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume there is a 100% chance Inciarte hurts his value more by playing everyday and being terrible vs LHers because that's almost certainly what is going to happen. If the team was interested in maximizing his value to the organization they would trade him now when his value is at it's peak. Since it appears they want to use him as a future piece of the team, they may as well deploy him properly as the long side of a platoon.

I won't even comment on Adonis being at Freese's level other than to say it is patently absurd to suggest he will even be half the player Freese is.

The idea behind getting Freese and Jackson is to make the offense good enough to have a chance at 80+ wins and an outside shot at a playoff spot. However, if Freese is signed to a crazy good contract like 1 year $8M with 2 option years, he could become a very valuable trade piece. He is the definition of league average, but the Braves have proven just how hard those types of players can be to acquire, especially at an affordable price.
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Oh to be so clairvoyant.. So you know Ender will hit poorly against Lefties because of 2015.. yet Freese will improve because you can't count 2015 and Adonis will never hit what he hit in 2015.. gottcha.. good argument.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm going to go ahead and assume there is a 100% chance Inciarte hurts his value more by playing everyday and being terrible vs LHers because that's almost certainly what is going to happen. If the team was interested in maximizing his value to the organization they would trade him now when his value is at it's peak. Since it appears they want to use him as a future piece of the team, they may as well deploy him properly as the long side of a platoon.

I won't even comment on Adonis being at Freese's level other than to say it is patently absurd to suggest he will even be half the player Freese is.

The idea behind getting Freese and Jackson is to make the offense good enough to have a chance at 80+ wins and an outside shot at a playoff spot. However, if Freese is signed to a crazy good contract like 1 year $8M with 2 option years, he could become a very valuable trade piece. He is the definition of league average, but the Braves have proven just how hard those types of players can be to acquire, especially at an affordable price.
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There's no way any player would sign a cheap 1 year deal and give a team two options years. That makes zero sense from Freese's perspective. If he improves, he's locked into a way below market value contract. If he stays the same, then he loses the ability to go to another team (for a similar AAV). If he declines, he's released.

So, the only logic to signing Freese is if you honestly think he, Jackson, etc. can indeed push the team to 80 wins, which is defensible. I disagree with that, but that's a separate argument. I think what's far more accurate is those low tier FA's improve the team by 3-4 wins (in aggregate) and it worsens our draft position. At this point, we should live and die by the young players. If they succeed and we win, then that's great. If they fail, that's fine too because the system caters to failure.
 
I don't think the offense will be a putrid as many on here are predicting. Our offense should be noticeably better than last year's with a full year of Olivera and the additions of Inciarte and Aybar.

I think the main concern is still the pitching, imo. The rotation has only 3 guaranteed spots. Which means the last two spots will be filled by some combination of rookies and ManBan/Folty/Perez. It could be a long year if none of the young kids step up. The pen is OK for now but lacks depth, unless we plan on using Folty and ManBan in the pen, which would be a mistake, imo.
 
The Braves are going to have a bottom 5 offense, and I'm not sure how anyone can realistically expect otherwise. The addition of Inciarte is offset by the subtraction of Maybin. Aybar is a minimal upgrade over Simmons offensively and not going to do anything but be a poor #2 hitter. Olivera will probably help, but that will probably be offset by AJP and the catcher position being worse than last year.

If they go into the season with the current roster I would expect another year of terrible offense.

At least the pitching has a chance to improve as the year progresses...so that's something to be hopeful for.
 
Inciarte should be signicantly better than Maybin. And it's doubtful the catcher position is worse than last year. Flowers and AJP should produce rather well together. Not to mention a healthy Freeman playing in more than 120 games.

Not saying this offense is going to set the world on fire, but it should definitely be better than last year. The bigger concern is replacing 300+ innings of quality pitching from Miller and Wood.
 
Enscheff said:
The Braves are going to have a bottom 5 offense, and I'm not sure how anyone can realistically expect otherwise. The addition of Inciarte is offset by the subtraction of Maybin. Aybar is a minimal upgrade over Simmons offensively and not going to do anything but be a poor #2 hitter. Olivera will probably help, but that will probably be offset by AJP and the catcher position being worse than last year.

If they go into the season with the current roster I would expect another year of terrible offense.

At least the pitching has a chance to improve as the year progresses...so that's something to be hopeful for.
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You need to pass what you are on please..

1B one would assume FF will be better this year barring another injury
2B we should see more of a platoon and I think this will be better again this year
SS better OBP with better speed will easily trump 2015 simmons
3B Adonis will produce better offensive numbers along with KJ platoon
LF HO should produce significantly better than any of our scrubs we had in 2015
CF You are seriously calling Maybin > Ender?? Ender had higher avg/obp/slg/ops/ops +..
RF Nick will probably be worse than last year IMO.. I think he flashes more power, but his 2B and OPB will be lower..
C Again, I could say this might be less than last year.. but not by much. I think AJ having a platoon partner will help the overall position.

So you are completely wrong that we are worse than last year.. No we won't be a top offensive club.. but no one has said we would..but we will be better than last year..

and what is funny is you say that we will be worse than last year as is, but Freese and Jackson is enough to push us to 80+ wins.. REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Carp said:
Inciarte should be signicantly better than Maybin. And it's doubtful the catcher position is worse than last year. Flowers and AJP should produce rather well together. Not to mention a healthy Freeman playing in more than 120 games.

Not saying this offense is going to set the world on fire, but it should definitely be better than last year. The bigger concern is replacing 300+ innings of quality pitching from Miller and Wood.
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That's about how I see it. We actually have the potential to be better at every position, save maybe RF. Not significantly better, mind you, but there is, ahem, reason to believe.
 
Dang, I was still holding out a small amount of hope we'd circle back to Uribe. I'm REAL nervous about our 3B defense with this current roster.

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I agree Dak.. I think a natural platoon will develop with KJ and Adonis, so I think offensively speaking we will be better this year at 3B than last year...and maybe be above average.. But defensively speaking, it could get scary...
 
bravesfanMatt said:
You need to pass what you are on please..

1B one would assume FF will be better this year barring another injury

2B we should see more of a platoon and I think this will be better again this year

SS better OBP with better speed will easily trump 2015 simmons

3B Adonis will produce better offensive numbers along with KJ platoon

LF HO should produce significantly better than any of our scrubs we had in 2015

CF You are seriously calling Maybin > Ender?? Ender had higher avg/obp/slg/ops/ops +..

RF Nick will probably be worse than last year IMO.. I think he flashes more power, but his 2B and OPB will be lower..

C Again, I could say this might be less than last year.. but not by much. I think AJ having a platoon partner will help the overall position.

So you are completely wrong that we are worse than last year.. No we won't be a top offensive club.. but no one has said we would..but we will be better than last year..

and what is funny is you say that we will be worse than last year as is, but Freese and Jackson is enough to push us to 80+ wins.. REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Even if the Braves are better offensviely than last year (they should be or something seriously has gone wrong.) that's still not saying anything. They were dead last in 2015 in runs scored with 573. A massive 40 runs behind the next to last Marlins. Compared to 2015 numbers the Braves would have to score 67 more runs than last year to escape the bottom 5. Is that possible? Sure, anything is. But odds are the Braves will again be among the worst offensive teams in the game. This will continue to be an ongoing problem.
 
thewupk said:
Even if the Braves are better offensviely than last year (they should be or something seriously has gone wrong.) that's still not saying anything. They were dead last in 2015 in runs scored with 573. A massive 40 runs behind the next to last Marlins. Compared to 2015 numbers the Braves would have to score 67 more runs than last year to escape the bottom 5. Is that possible? Sure, anything is. But odds are the Braves will again be among the worst offensive teams in the game. This will continue to be an ongoing problem.
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never said we would be world beaters.. But we will be better than last year. one thing to note about last year however.. we were on pace to score 600+ runs up until July 1st.. then trades and injuries and the annual team quitting on Frediot derailed them a bit. Again, that is nothing to brag about.. but we were a watchable offensive club the first part of last year. I predict around a 625 runs scored.. could be higher.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
never said we would be world beaters.. But we will be better than last year. one thing to note about last year however.. we were on pace to score 600+ runs up until July 1st.. then trades and injuries and the annual team quitting on Frediot derailed them a bit. Again, that is nothing to brag about.. but we were a watchable offensive club the first part of last year. I predict around a 625 runs scored.. could be higher.
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That's the thing. We can be better than last year and still be awful. 625 runs is still awful. And yes the offense wasn't stupid bad the first part of the year. But a lot of that had to do with a really high BABIP and cluster luck. Something that most said wouldn't last and when reality finally hit you saw what happened. Our offense shouldn't be 2015 bad but it's still going to be awful. People expecting else are going to be in for a rude awakening.
 
thewupk said:
That's the thing. We can be better than last year and still be awful. 625 runs is still awful. And yes the offense wasn't stupid bad the first part of the year. But a lot of that had to do with a really high BABIP and cluster luck. Something that most said wouldn't last and when reality finally hit you saw what happened. Our offense shouldn't be 2015 bad but it's still going to be awful. People expecting else are going to be in for a rude awakening.
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High BaBip? 1st half was .302, 2nd half was .291

but, I agree, we will probably be bad again this year.. just not as bad. And there is a huge difference between hope and expecting..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
High BaBip? 1st half was .302, 2nd half was .291
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Check it with RISP in the first half. Also Enscheff never said the offense would be worse in 2016, just that it would be bad. If they score your 625 predicted runs they would be the 3rd worst offense in baseball by 2015 standards. So yeah still bottom 5, still awful.
 
thewupk said:
Check it with RISP in the first half. Also Enscheff never said the offense would be worse in 2016, just that it would be bad. If they score your 625 predicted runs they would be the 3rd worst offense in baseball by 2015 standards. So yeah still bottom 5, still awful.
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No need to white knight Enscheff.. nothing personal. He said that the addition of Inciarte was off set by the loss of Maybin. thus saying they are equal... which is in no way true.. Not according to last years or even the prior years stats. He also said that if we sign Freese and Jackson, we could push 80 + wins.. but also say that as the team is now we will be awful offensively but the additions of a .250 hitter in Freese and a .265 hitter in Jackson will net us 20+ wins.. Come ON!! Like I said, prior, the FO thinks Adonis is what Freese is on the offensive side. And based off 2015 numbers he is.. then Jackson would instantly devalue Ender because we now only see him as being able to play in a platoon and not everyday.. NO THANKS!!!!

And no need to look up BaBip with runners in scoring position on a sunny day when the wind is blowing towards right.. way to obscure for my taste. We got more hits with runners in scoring position because we had players who weren't injured or traded hitting. We will probably put up bad offensive numbers next year. but I can hope for better results. I am going on a limb however and will say Adonis will have better numbers than Freese and Ender will have better numbers than Jackson..
However, Adonis might be with an * since I think he will platoon a lot with KJ, thus artificial inflating his numbers a bit...
 
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