Around Baseball Offseason Thread

Is there really anywhere left for Freese to go? Maybe back to the Angels or Cards, but that's all I can come up with beyond us.

not sure, if his price goes down, someone will pick him up. Not sure the Braves will however... Still think the FO is fine with what we have.. I personally wouldn't care one way or the other. I like Adonis.. but Freese is a better all around ball player..
 
No need to white knight Enscheff.. nothing personal. He said that the addition of Inciarte was off set by the loss of Maybin. thus saying they are equal... which is in no way true.. Not according to last years or even the prior years stats. He also said that if we sign Freese and Jackson, we could push 80 + wins.. but also say that as the team is now we will be awful offensively but the additions of a .250 hitter in Freese and a .265 hitter in Jackson will net us 20+ wins.. Come ON!! Like I said, prior, the FO thinks Adonis is what Freese is on the offensive side. And based off 2015 numbers he is.. then Jackson would instantly devalue Ender because we now only see him as being able to play in a platoon and not everyday.. NO THANKS!!!!

And no need to look up BaBip with runners in scoring position on a sunny day when the wind is blowing towards right.. way to obscure for my taste. We got more hits with runners in scoring position because we had players who weren't injured or traded hitting. We will probably put up bad offensive numbers next year. but I can hope for better results. I am going on a limb however and will say Adonis will have better numbers than Freese and Ender will have better numbers than Jackson..
However, Adonis might be with an * since I think he will platoon a lot with KJ, thus artificial inflating his numbers a bit...

Yes, I said they will be a bottom 5 offense, which sadly enough, WILL be an improvement over last year. Add 20+ wins to get to 80 wins? Where did I predict the Braves to be a 60 win team? What are you even arguing about?

I think this is probably a 70-75 win team. Adonis will probably be a 0-1 win player, and perhaps even negative if his sudden HR pop vanishes as quickly as it magically appeared. Replace him with an average MLB player in Freese and that's a 2+ win improvement. Inciarte will be terrible vs LHers, so adding Jackson to post a .750 OPS vs them should add another 1+ wins. So yes, adding 3+ wins to a 70-75 win team will make them push 80+ wins, especially if some young pitchers break out, or if a marginal upgrade is made at the trade deadline.

And the point of signing Freese is not to win this year. The point is to add value at a bargain rate. The idea of also adding Jackson only popped up as a side thought about maybe making the team decent. I do NOT think the Braves should sign Jackson, nor do I think they should have signed Boni or Beckham.
 
Yes, I said they will be a bottom 5 offense, which sadly enough, WILL be an improvement over last year. Add 20+ wins to get to 80 wins? Where did I predict the Braves to be a 60 win team? What are you even arguing about?

I think this is probably a 70-75 win team. Adonis will probably be a 0-1 win player, and perhaps even negative if his sudden HR pop vanishes as quickly as it magically appeared. Replace him with an average MLB player in Freese and that's a 2+ win improvement. Inciarte will be terrible vs LHers, so adding Jackson to post a .750 OPS vs them should add another 1+ wins. So yes, adding 3+ wins to a 70-75 win team will make them push 80+ wins, especially if some young pitchers break out, or if a marginal upgrade is made at the trade deadline.

And the point of signing Freese is not to win this year. The point is to add value at a bargain rate. The idea of also adding Jackson only popped up as a side thought about maybe making the team decent. I do NOT think the Braves should sign Jackson, nor do I think they should have signed Boni or Beckham.

I can agree that they are around a 75 win team.. mainly because the BP will be better.. if I missed represented you then my bad. no hard feelings..

I can also agree that the FO has made some head scratching moves this offseason. Beckham and Boni are at the top of my list (although, I am holding out hope for Beckham).. but we had internal options that were probably just as good. It is like they are trying to compete but half assing it. If they can get Freese for a nice cheap deal, then fine with me.. just don't think the FO is interested. They said they want to see what Adonis can do...I am curious as well.. I think he will be around a 1 to 2 War player.. his defense could be bad enough to make him a 0.. but I just think his offense will be there this year.

And I still disagree about Ender vs. Lefties.. I just don't think there is enough stats. to say one way or the other. But then I have been on board with trading him if the return is right..
 
No need to white knight Enscheff.. nothing personal. He said that the addition of Inciarte was off set by the loss of Maybin. thus saying they are equal... which is in no way true.. Not according to last years or even the prior years stats. He also said that if we sign Freese and Jackson, we could push 80 + wins.. but also say that as the team is now we will be awful offensively but the additions of a .250 hitter in Freese and a .265 hitter in Jackson will net us 20+ wins.. Come ON!! Like I said, prior, the FO thinks Adonis is what Freese is on the offensive side. And based off 2015 numbers he is.. then Jackson would instantly devalue Ender because we now only see him as being able to play in a platoon and not everyday.. NO THANKS!!!!

And no need to look up BaBip with runners in scoring position on a sunny day when the wind is blowing towards right.. way to obscure for my taste. We got more hits with runners in scoring position because we had players who weren't injured or traded hitting. We will probably put up bad offensive numbers next year. but I can hope for better results. I am going on a limb however and will say Adonis will have better numbers than Freese and Ender will have better numbers than Jackson..

However, Adonis might be with an * since I think he will platoon a lot with KJ, thus artificial inflating his numbers a bit...

Regarding ender and maybin. Maybin had a 94 wrc+ in 2015. That happens to be enders career average and what's he's projected to do in 2016. As players they aren't equals due to defense. However what we get from him as a hitter in 2016 likely won't be much different than what we got from maybin in 2015.
 
Regarding ender and maybin. Maybin had a 94 wrc+ in 2015. That happens to be enders career average and what's he's projected to do in 2016. As players they aren't equals due to defense. However what we get from him as a hitter in 2016 likely won't be much different than what we got from maybin in 2015.

Young players (like Inciarte) are as likely to improve as older guys are to decline. Some of you guys seem to think everyone declines, and nobody ever improves. You project everyone to be equal to or less than the numbers say they were last year. I think young, talented guys like Ender and even Jace are more likely to improve than to decline right now at this point in their careers.
 
Young players (like Inciarte) are as likely to improve as older guys are to decline. Some of you guys seem to think everyone declines, and nobody ever improves. You project everyone to be equal to or less than the numbers say they were last year. I think young, talented guys like Ender and even Jace are more likely to improve than to decline right now at this point in their careers.

True. But in making projections you have to look at other factors in addition to age. Unusually high BABIP (relative to line drive rate) for example would suggest regression risk. See Chris Johnson of the .394 BABIP in 2013. Btw Inciarte's BABIP last year was .329. So much less regression risk from that.
 
I don't disagree, but I don't see any outrageous things like that with these two. They both have RH/LH splits, but they both know it. I suspect, and hope that they are aware and will improve on that. Experience is a GREAT teacher, and they have both had some success in the major leagues.

I am more optimistic than most here. I think young talented guys can be expected to improve.
 
True. But in making projections you have to look at other factors in addition to age. Unusually high BABIP (relative to line drive rate) for example would suggest regression risk. See Chris Johnson of the .394 BABIP in 2013. Btw Inciarte's BABIP last year was .329. So much less regression risk from that.

Maybin is not an old man.. he is only 28.. so I don't think you can throw age at either player.. however, maybin had a great 1st half last year and a putrid 2nd half. So I say is who he is.. a .260 hitter with maybe 10 to 15 homers.. I think you can look at Ender and say on the safe side you should be around a .280 hitter with a high OPB and around 5 -10 homers.. that may not seem huge but it is when you factor the OBP and far fewer K%.

here is Maybin's profile...
Profile: It was a tale of two halves for Maybin in 2015, as he posted above-average offense in the first half, and followed that with putridity the rest of the way. His walk rate took a dive in the second half, going from 9.3% to 6.6%. He’s moving to the Tigers outfield for 2016, and there is no guarantee of a full-time role for him. He’ll likely be platooning with Anthony Gose and Tyler Collins, barring any other moves by the Tigers before the season gets underway. It will be interesting to see how the Tigers use him, as he didn’t have much of a platoon split in 2015. His patience against lefties is much better, as his 13.1% walk rate against southpaws dwarfs the 6.5% BB% he shows against righties. In his career, his weighted offense is actually higher against right-handers, but reverse splits are tough to believe in without huge samples. He was basically even last year, but that was buoyed by the increased walk rate. Don’t pick him up to be the short side of a platoon, even if that’s how the Tigers deploy him, as the numbers against lefties aren’t stellar. He cracked the 20-steal mark for the third time in his career, and should be good for another 15-20 in 2016, but that's about the best thing you can say about him. (Darren Schienbein)

here is Enders from fangraph..
Profile: Inciarte wasn't a big-time prospect or expected to develop into the player he has been the last two seasons, but he turned out to be one of Arizona's most valuable players. He played all three outfield spots incredibly well, which increases his overall utility. He was expected to be in a platoon with pitcher-turned-outfielder David Peralta, but Inciarte's production was so good, the Diamondbacks had to find a spot for him. He played mostly right field because Yasmany Tomas had a disappointing first season. He also picked up in center field when A.J. Pollock missed some time. His skill-set at the plate is about contact, so he doesn't hit for a lot of power -- and probably never will. Even his 2015 produced just a .105 isolated slugging percentage, but he was able to be productive in other ways. He used his speed to get on base when he hit the ball. He had the sixth-best contact rate in the majors and produced a 52.4% ground ball rate, good for 20th in the majors. He also spread the ball around the field, almost equally sending balls in play to the center, pull, and opposite fields. He was traded to the Atlanta Braves along with Dansby Swanson and Aaron Blair for Shelby Miller. Unless he's traded again, he could be one of the Braves' most productive players this side of Freddie Freeman. He's also slated to be their starting center fielder and, presumably, hit near the top of the lineup. (Dustin Nosler)

I know which offensive guy I would want.. what about you guys..
 
I don't disagree, but I don't see any outrageous things like that with these two. They both have RH/LH splits, but they both know it. I suspect, and hope that they are aware and will improve on that. Experience is a GREAT teacher, and they have both had some success in the major leagues.

I am more optimistic than most here. I think young talented guys can be expected to improve.

I am optimistic for Ender as well. I would trade him in a heart beat if the Cubs were willing to give up a few of their good prospects.. but otherwise, I think we have a very, very good ball player. I think he will hit lefties much better this year, just because he puts the ball in play so much.
 
Young players (like Inciarte) are as likely to improve as older guys are to decline. Some of you guys seem to think everyone declines, and nobody ever improves. You project everyone to be equal to or less than the numbers say they were last year. I think young, talented guys like Ender and even Jace are more likely to improve than to decline right now at this point in their careers.

This is my sense, as well. "Regress to the mean" seems to be a mantra. Every player is going to OPS .685 and every team is going to win 81. Very, very few of these projection statistics, it seems to me, step out on a limb and project anything better than what has already happened. And in that kind of world nobody improves. Everybody regresses.

Except after a down year, when everybody's due to bounce back. But not too far. To the difference between the bad year and the mean.
 
Young players (like Inciarte) are as likely to improve as older guys are to decline. Some of you guys seem to think everyone declines, and nobody ever improves. You project everyone to be equal to or less than the numbers say they were last year. I think young, talented guys like Ender and even Jace are more likely to improve than to decline right now at this point in their careers.

BTW, in our stable I believe there's an excellent chance for significant improvement from several guys. Inciarte, of course. I like Peterson. Was very disappointed when he flatlined last year, and am actually encouraged that he was playing through what sounds like a significant injury.

I'm not ready to fire Olivera yet. His Cuban stats (admittedly, they are Cuban stats) are compelling. Freddie is a much better hitter than he showed last year.

Finally, I thought Wisler was a pitch away from being excellent and he's working with Glavine on his change (who better?). And if he can stay healthy (slim chance, sadly) I think Banuelos is a stud.

Lots of guys I project to make significant jumps, but they're unsupported by the currently existing statistical analysis.

For instance, I know a little bit about pitching. And I absolutely know Wisler is an out pitch away from being a top tier guy. I doubt any analysis could support that. Maybe Pitch F/X data showing movement and location of his change in '15 vs. '16. But I'll need '16 data to show that.
 
A lot of players are an out pitch away from greatness.

Some get there. I got a feeling. He's smart, great presence, and I liked the comments he was making about working with Glavine and "committing to the pitch." Plus, after the league adjusted and rocked him for awhile, he adjusted back in September. So it's more than the pitch, it's a developing young pitcher. I like him a lot.
 
At what point do guys like Fowler, Desmond and Freese become such bargains that the Braves would be wise to sign them? At some point the trade value of Fowler and Desmond become more valuable than the 40th pick in the draft the Braves would have to forfeit.
 
At what point do guys like Fowler, Desmond and Freese become such bargains that the Braves would be wise to sign them? At some point the trade value of Fowler and Desmond become more valuable than the 40th pick in the draft the Braves would have to forfeit.

As soon as Desmond doesn't have the pick attached to him.
 
At what point do guys like Fowler, Desmond and Freese become such bargains that the Braves would be wise to sign them? At some point the trade value of Fowler and Desmond become more valuable than the 40th pick in the draft the Braves would have to forfeit.

Given that we will have 2 middle infielder ready by mid 2017 and a CF ready by mid 2016 there isn't a point where either become worth giving up a pick for. Not like we would be using either long term, so it would be just wasting the pick.
 
Given that we will have 2 middle infielder ready by mid 2017 and a CF ready by mid 2016 there isn't a point where either become worth giving up a pick for. Not like we would be using either long term, so it would be just wasting the pick.

Yes, but eventually their trade value becomes more valuable than the 40th pick.
 
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