Braves acquire RHP Touki Toussaint & Bronson Arroyo for Filthy Phil Gosselin
- Thread starter Krovahn
- Start date
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
It's perfectly fair for Stewart and LaRussa to evaluate Toussaint and decide they don't think that highly of his future- organizations have to scout their own guys, and Toussaint was drafted by the previous regime. It's not unreasonable for Stewart to simply have a different evaluation of a player and decide he's fair game for a trade.
But lordy, that doesn't mean you have to trade him to the first team that comes calling. If you have a guy you don't think highly of, but who was clearly valued at a reasonably high level quite recently, put him into a larger trade. You know, for an actual good player. "We didn't think that highly of Tousssaint" does not lead inevitably to "Therefore we had to trade him for Phil Gosselin."
But lordy, that doesn't mean you have to trade him to the first team that comes calling. If you have a guy you don't think highly of, but who was clearly valued at a reasonably high level quite recently, put him into a larger trade. You know, for an actual good player. "We didn't think that highly of Tousssaint" does not lead inevitably to "Therefore we had to trade him for Phil Gosselin."
chop2chip
Well-known member
While true, his value is based off draft pedigree and raw talent. Every year there are 30 players that come in with those same credentials.
If he goes the way of Lucas Sims I think that value erodes. But right now not a single person on earth should be concerned with a lack of eye popping results (although his numbers look fine, so I don't understand why Cameron eludes to them).
chop2chip
Well-known member
Yes. Slap hitters that strike out 18% of the time raise questions. Who cares what anonymous scout may or may not have told Gammoms.
Agreed about Ruiz. He's one of my favorite hitting prospects. I don't think Braxton cracks 100 in the next year unless he really gets going in the second half power wise.
Lol, good for Pedro. These guys say ridiculous stuff all the time.
chop2chip
Well-known member
They didn't need to trade Touki in order to do that. There's no salary cap in baseball.
I understand the business side, but from a fan side there is ZERO upside.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Yeah, agreed. He's extremely risky.
Someone posted that Arizona has had him shelve his curveball to work on control of other pitches. I have no clue is that's true or not, but that won't help the numbers if it is.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Those who don't like this trade or have a problem with the Arroyo factor just aren't on board with the Braves stated strategy which is to be playoff/WS competitive when the new park opens in 2017. They just aren't willing to take the human factor out, step back and view players as assets, as pieces of a machine that is designed to do one thing: win baseball games.
hart has said, many times that 2017 is the goal. And in terms of building and managing a ML baseball team it should be. He has also said that this isn't a complete rebuild, that they intend to compete along the way. That is GM speak designed not to lose the fanbase for the next couple of years. In fact, it is actually contrary to the end game goal since baseball is set up to reward those teams with the worst records in baseball now more than any other time in history.
Many fans look at this team and see that they are only 1-3 games out depending on the day. That is fools gold and a good GM better be able to see that and not allow that to change the vision and the plan. The team as currently constructed is NOT a contender. Sure, they might stagger around and eventually fall across the finish line ahead of everyone else in the division but it won't be because they are good, it will be because everyone else was just more inept and/or injured.
Hart just purchased a top 100 prospect in baseball for at worst $10M. That is more reflective of the retarding impact on bonuses that the draft has than on any overpayment the Braves made. look at what the Cubans are getting as FA and you will get a better understanding of what top talent (or at least speculated top talent costs) in terms of dollars.
When you take into consideration that the DB's paid $2.7 to sign Touki in the first place, and the possibility that the Braves will receive some value this year out of Arroyo then you can see that best case the player would cost the Braves a net $1.8M ($4.5M buyout-$2.7M Touki Bonus).
Braves should be doing more of this where possible AND need to go on about a 20 game losing streak.
hart has said, many times that 2017 is the goal. And in terms of building and managing a ML baseball team it should be. He has also said that this isn't a complete rebuild, that they intend to compete along the way. That is GM speak designed not to lose the fanbase for the next couple of years. In fact, it is actually contrary to the end game goal since baseball is set up to reward those teams with the worst records in baseball now more than any other time in history.
Many fans look at this team and see that they are only 1-3 games out depending on the day. That is fools gold and a good GM better be able to see that and not allow that to change the vision and the plan. The team as currently constructed is NOT a contender. Sure, they might stagger around and eventually fall across the finish line ahead of everyone else in the division but it won't be because they are good, it will be because everyone else was just more inept and/or injured.
Hart just purchased a top 100 prospect in baseball for at worst $10M. That is more reflective of the retarding impact on bonuses that the draft has than on any overpayment the Braves made. look at what the Cubans are getting as FA and you will get a better understanding of what top talent (or at least speculated top talent costs) in terms of dollars.
When you take into consideration that the DB's paid $2.7 to sign Touki in the first place, and the possibility that the Braves will receive some value this year out of Arroyo then you can see that best case the player would cost the Braves a net $1.8M ($4.5M buyout-$2.7M Touki Bonus).
Braves should be doing more of this where possible AND need to go on about a 20 game losing streak.
Think its due to relatively low K for low minors (8) and high walk rate (4.5) and ERA (5.75). Not that I think those numbers are a boner killer for someone that is 19.
I don't like the trade on their side either, but I"ve read they needed the 10 million to make another trade. There isn't a salary cap in MLB, but individual teams surely have one. They also don't any money to look internationally.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Sims may or may not have an attached head to his corpse.
I wish some Braves reporter would ask a damn question about what happened. Shanks' mafia hit on the Wrens should have bought him that privilege.
I don't think anyone with a at least half a brain dislikes this trade for the Braves.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Well for a man that is the chief editor of a statistical analysis website he should have forethought to completely disregard a sample size of 8 starts.
Braves1976
It's OVER 5,000!
Me either, but he and a few other posters have been hammering on Sims for a while now. I still very much disagree with them based on what I've seen of him. Further, it's too bad about that bus accident because he was getting back on track just before hitting the DL.
I think you are focusing on one line is an article too much. He's basically saying he has talent, but it hasn't showed up in limited time (58 innings) and moves on with the assumption that his talent is top 200.
chop2chip
Well-known member
I am fairly certain I haven't mentioned Sims ever, so I don't know why you said that.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Perhaps, but I still found it irrelevant.
I think he'll be bumped up to AA within the next month or so. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if his numbers improve there. Guys in A ball swing at everything.
Peripherals still look great.