Runs produced is a theory based on statistical models though. It's not an absolute and must consider that in evaluations.
Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows
- Thread starter Enscheff
- Start date
Runs produced is a theory based on statistical models though. It's not an absolute and must consider that in evaluations.
So can steroids and a magnitude of other things. For example I think had Chipper played his career in the 70's or 80's he would be viewed as the best 3B of all time. Sadly he played in an era with insanely boosted offensive numbers that somewhat drowned out his true talent. But that's neither here nor there.
dWAR is usually the addition of a players runs saved and their positional adjustment. An example is Markakis who was a -6.5 defender in 2016 according to Fangraphs. Now that can be misleading just by looking at it. His UZR was 1.5 which shows he was basically an average defender for his position. But compared to the rest of baseball he was below average. Which should be a given as most right fielders aren't good defenders when compared to all players in the game. So that should be expected.
It's not absolute, no. But it's WAR based system coorelates highly with the pythag win/loss system which is based on actual runs scored and runs given up. And that system correlates highly with actual wins and losses.
Which should be a given that if you score more runs than you allow that you will win games. But even that is never absolute due to various things that can happen in a season. A fine example is the 2016 Rangers. They scored 8 more runs than they allowed this past season yet they ended up with the best record in baseball. Not much logic in that but it happens.
For the record baseball ref does have oWAR which does combine a players offensive with their position. So that would negatively effect Mallex or anyone else moving from center to a corner spot. But as they say on their site that oWAR + dWAR =/= WAR because that would be counting the position adjustment twice.
I mainly bring that up because Trout has been #1 in oWAR for 5 straight seasons. No other player (not even Bonds, Ruth, or Williams) had 5 seasons in a row of being #1. Trout truly does have a chance to be the GOAT.
I mainly bring that up because Trout has been #1 in oWAR for 5 straight seasons. No other player (not even Bonds, Ruth, or Williams) had 5 seasons in a row of being #1. Trout truly does have a chance to be the GOAT.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I agree with you. However, this board skews heavily toward valuing new metrics, which basically say Kemp gives back his offensive value on defense.
Like you, I staunchly disagree, and there are a few others. But that's what the deal is.
Which version of Kemp are we talking about here? The one in San Diego where he had a 285 OBP before coming to Atlanta? That guy was not a good hitter at all even with his homers and rbi. Now the one that showed up in Atlanta with the 280 avg and 850 OPS. Yes I will take plenty of that. That version of Kemp is a good hitter and can help this team.
Exactly, he played great (if he can keep it up the next year). Also, he made some shaky plays in the field, but he usually did "make" he plays. It was by no mean pretty, but didn't hurt us as bad as I though he would.
I think because he loves the Braves, this "may" have renewed his career.
I think because he loves the Braves, this "may" have renewed his career.
blueagleace1
Playing the Waiting Game
Enscheff, serious question here..
Let me preface this with you seem to be a knowledgeable person who understands analytics and can bring a lot to a public forum. But with that being said, people have a hard time carrying on a conversation with you because of your objectivity and arrogance (whether you mean to come across as that or not) towards other posters. Just my opinion, and it's only that but you come across as one who automatically thinks your right and the other person is wrong before ever giving them a chance to explain. This isn't meant to be an attack or anything to the contrary, as like I said you can at times post some really insightful stuff but just in the wrong tone. So my question...
Why do you post on here?
Would love to hear your answer.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Has been clear for a long time that either Mallex OR Inciarte were out this offseason. It was never in the card for both to play every day in the ML outfield. They have essentially the same types of tools and value with Inciarte being better (at least right now).
I spent most of the offseason hoping for an Inciarte Trade because I thought his value would bring back more to the Braves, essentially Mallex-Inciarte+prospects gained from trading Inciarte would be more valuable than Inciarte-Mallex+prospects gained from trading Mallex.
IF I thought 2017 was a legitimate challenge year for the Braves, I would feel differently since Inciarte is more valuable as a ML player in 2017 than Mallex is likely to be.
So Mallex was scheduled to be either traded OR to serve as the everyday CF in AAA in hopes to build his value. It looks to me like the Braves FO is counting on Gohara's new found conditioning and break-out performance in the AFL as being the springboard to him being a top 50 type prospect. It's hard to really judge players who catch off-season helium until they carry it to the field. If Gohara is resting in the top 50 prospect list at the trade deadline, the Braves will look like geniuses. If Mallex hits .300/.360 and plays good CF defense next year they likely look like goats.
But Mallex was not likely a long time core piece in any case. He's someone they could afford to gamble with IMO.
I spent most of the offseason hoping for an Inciarte Trade because I thought his value would bring back more to the Braves, essentially Mallex-Inciarte+prospects gained from trading Inciarte would be more valuable than Inciarte-Mallex+prospects gained from trading Mallex.
IF I thought 2017 was a legitimate challenge year for the Braves, I would feel differently since Inciarte is more valuable as a ML player in 2017 than Mallex is likely to be.
So Mallex was scheduled to be either traded OR to serve as the everyday CF in AAA in hopes to build his value. It looks to me like the Braves FO is counting on Gohara's new found conditioning and break-out performance in the AFL as being the springboard to him being a top 50 type prospect. It's hard to really judge players who catch off-season helium until they carry it to the field. If Gohara is resting in the top 50 prospect list at the trade deadline, the Braves will look like geniuses. If Mallex hits .300/.360 and plays good CF defense next year they likely look like goats.
But Mallex was not likely a long time core piece in any case. He's someone they could afford to gamble with IMO.
Thsee are things that stats will never measure. The human element always exists and should never be discounted. It's plausible that Kemp was not "all in" for the past couple of years for various reasons. It may be a bunch of nonsense and not play out but Kemp certainly played some of his best ball in a long time when he came over to the braves. It will be interesting to see if this continues.
You told me I had the reading comprehension of a 6th grader after I was trying to have a discussion. But sure, I was the one who first hurled insults...
Your condescending tone has grown thin on this board and everyone can see you for what you really are.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
Yes an attention seeking baby and you guys keep pulling your tits out to feed him
You are right. There is no stat to measure when a player is actually trying or not.
I thought the smart move was to trade Ender as well, but once he became a fan favorite I started thinking it would be Mallex. Once he agreed to a below market extension the answer was clear. The good thing is we structured the contract where we can trade him after 2 more years once Acuna is ready if we want to and still get a decent return.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I probably trade a player like Mallex for a shot at a Gohara seeing what pitching is bringing these days. With two potentially dominant pitches , he could end up in the pen and still have tremendous value.
On another note good Lord at what the Ms gave up to get Smyly all told. (Gohara and Burrows included)
On another note good Lord at what the Ms gave up to get Smyly all told. (Gohara and Burrows included)