Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows

Tapate50 said:
I probably trade a player like Mallex for a shot at a Gohara seeing what pitching is bringing these days. With two potentially dominant pitches , he could end up in the pen and still have tremendous value.

On another note good Lord at what the Ms gave up to get Smyly all told. (Gohara and Burrows included)
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It did turn out to be a lot, didn't it? While I like Smyly and think he's a pretty good candidate to get straightened out, they gave us two good prospects and Tampa two more.

Dipoto better hope he's right. His friends out here are considering staging an intervention and taking away his phone. Since 9/15 he's made 36 trades, 50% again more than the #2 GM, who is...yep, you got it.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
It did turn out to be a lot, didn't it? While I like Smyly and think he's a pretty good candidate to get straightened out, they gave us two good prospects and Tampa two more.

Dipoto better hope he's right. His friends out here are considering staging an intervention and taking away his phone. Since 9/15 he's made 36 trades, 50% again more than the #2 GM, who is...yep, you got it.
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Right now you don't know if he's brilliant or impatient. Only time will tell.
 
Tapate50 said:
I probably trade a player like Mallex for a shot at a Gohara seeing what pitching is bringing these days. With two potentially dominant pitches , he could end up in the pen and still have tremendous value.

On another note good Lord at what the Ms gave up to get Smyly all told. (Gohara and Burrows included)
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I've long been a fan of Smyly....so they gave up Burrows, Gohara, Vargas, and Yarbrough for Smyly and Simmons.

Basically a high upside pitcher that is top 50ish but a long ways away and 3 guys that have almost no chance of a ML impact for a middle of the rotation starter and a later inning reliever (with injury concerns). That is understandable for a team trying to win this year.
 
gilesfan said:
I've long been a fan of Smyly....so they gave up Burrows, Gohara, Vargas, and Yarbrough for Smyly and Simmons.

Basically a high upside pitcher that is top 50ish but a long ways away and 3 guys that have almost no chance of a ML impact for a middle of the rotation starter and a later inning reliever (with injury concerns). That is understandable for a team trying to win this year.
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I would bet Burrows makes MLB this year or beginning of next. Vargas is a very young, toolsy SS that could be good. I think that is a lot to give up for a reliever with potential and a starter who can't pitch 150 innings. I think Simmons was the best get for them in this whole thing.
 
Smyly threw 175 innings all the way back in 2016.

Burrows is at best a LOOGY with average stuff. Thats not really saying much.
 
gilesfan said:
Smyly threw 175 innings all the way back in 2016.

Burrows is at best a LOOGY with average stuff. Thats not really saying much.
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Right but that was his highest total of his career and those 25 extra innings he posted a 5+ ERA.. averaging 5 innings per. I understand he was coming back from injury.. but I am not so sure I would bet on Smyly ever being that effective again. Just another added to the long list of pitchers who try to come back from torn labrums and don't regain old form.
 
gilesfan said:
Smyly threw 175 innings all the way back in 2016.

Burrows is at best a LOOGY with average stuff. Thats not really saying much.
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I'd love to see Smyly do well, but he's struggled with injuries since college.

When Drew is on he's pretty good, but any rating system or stat that rates Smyly as equal to or better than Teheran uses crack residue as one of its key inputs.
 
gilesfan said:
Who has said Smyly is as good as Teheran?
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It was never said outright, but Enscheff strongly implied that because an objective projection predicts Smyly to be more valuable than Teheran this year, you can't really argue with it or else you're a huge homer.
 
BP's take on Gohara. Needless to say, he is not a Top 50 prospect due to his extreme (even for a pitcher) risk:

"Gohara is a 20-year-old with an electric arm and concerns up and down the profile from there. Let’s start with the good. He comfortably sits in the mid-90s and touches higher with his fastball. Hitters in short-season ball couldn’t catch up to it and he dominated the Midwest League after an early-summer promotion. His curve has somewhat slurvy action, but when thrown right it’s a sharp offering with bat-missing downward action. And while the changeup is still a work in progress, it started to flash for him last summer as well.

Now the bad: While Gohara has most of the ingredients you’d want in a no. 2 starter, he’s not all that likely to reach his lofty ceiling. Stemming from issues with his size and conditioning—the big southpaw is listed at 210 pounds, but is pushing 250—he struggles to repeat his delivery and his command drifts over the course of outings. That may be fixable, but he’s got a lot of work ahead, and whispers about his makeup and effort level grew louder over the past couple of years."

They didn't even mention his shoulder issues that scuttled a trade to the Reds.

These shoulder issues:

"Kevin
9:21 What are your thoughts on the prospects the Braves received in the Mallex trade?

Jeff Sullivan
9:21 I don't have any thoughts on Burrows, except that as a strikeout-heavy minor-league reliever, he could move fast
9:23 Gohara is clearly the more exciting get, but as Ken Rosenthal pointed out, there are questions about his shoulder, and he's never even thrown 70 innings in a minor-league season. The stuff is there, but Gohara is pretty damn raw, and he's years off, if he even ever arrives"

Oh yeah, and he's going to be 20 this season.

Gohara is currently ranked 12 in the Braves system. If he is a Top 50 guy, does than mean the Braves have 12 guys in the Top 50? If so, wow!!!

No, Gohara probably isn't even a Top 100 guy.

The Braves undersold Mallex too soon, and got a fat LHed version of Touki with shoulder issues in return.
 
smootness said:
It was never said outright, but Enscheff strongly implied that because an objective projection predicts Smyly to be more valuable than Teheran this year, you can't really argue with it or else you're a huge homer.
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ok.. let me rephrase my comment then.. Who of importance said/implied that Smyly is as good as JT..
 
smootness said:
It was never said outright, but Enscheff strongly implied that because an objective projection predicts Smyly to be more valuable than Teheran this year, you can't really argue with it or else you're a huge homer.
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I posted a set of numbers. The numbers upset you. I apologize.

Hopefully your safe space is a numbers-free zone.
 
The Braves clearly think Gohara found something last year with his conditioning and if he carries that forward his stock is going to get a lot more expensive than Mallex Smith. Time will tell on Mallex, I liked him, I think he can be a starter, but there are plenty who doubt he hits well enough to be that type of guy and if that's the case the Braves likely did well by selling on him now and not letting his value go down.
 
Opinions are all over the place on Gohara. You'll hear one scout say he's the best lefty pitching prospect in baseball and another say he's probably only ever going to be a reliever. You'll hear one source talk about makeup issues while another praises his hard work on his conditioning and weight loss. One place will say he lacks athleticism while another calls him a great athlete.

I'm sure we did our homework on him. Probably saw a lot of him in the AFL. I just hope it works out because I think Mallex will end up as a Juan Pierre clone and those have value.
 
Enscheff said:
BP's take on Gohara. Needless to say, he is not a Top 50 prospect due to his extreme (even for a pitcher) risk:

"Gohara is a 20-year-old with an electric arm and concerns up and down the profile from there. Let’s start with the good. He comfortably sits in the mid-90s and touches higher with his fastball. Hitters in short-season ball couldn’t catch up to it and he dominated the Midwest League after an early-summer promotion. His curve has somewhat slurvy action, but when thrown right it’s a sharp offering with bat-missing downward action. And while the changeup is still a work in progress, it started to flash for him last summer as well.

Now the bad: While Gohara has most of the ingredients you’d want in a no. 2 starter, he’s not all that likely to reach his lofty ceiling. Stemming from issues with his size and conditioning—the big southpaw is listed at 210 pounds, but is pushing 250—he struggles to repeat his delivery and his command drifts over the course of outings. That may be fixable, but he’s got a lot of work ahead, and whispers about his makeup and effort level grew louder over the past couple of years."

They didn't even mention his shoulder issues that scuttled a trade to the Reds.

These shoulder issues:

"Kevin
9:21 What are your thoughts on the prospects the Braves received in the Mallex trade?

Jeff Sullivan
9:21 I don't have any thoughts on Burrows, except that as a strikeout-heavy minor-league reliever, he could move fast
9:23 Gohara is clearly the more exciting get, but as Ken Rosenthal pointed out, there are questions about his shoulder, and he's never even thrown 70 innings in a minor-league season. The stuff is there, but Gohara is pretty damn raw, and he's years off, if he even ever arrives"

Oh yeah, and he's going to be 20 this season.

Gohara is currently ranked 12 in the Braves system. If he is a Top 50 guy, does than mean the Braves have 12 guys in the Top 50? If so, wow!!!

No, Gohara probably isn't even a Top 100 guy.

The Braves undersold Mallex too soon, and got a fat LHed version of Touki with shoulder issues in return.
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That's the first I've read on him and a curve. Pretty much everything else I've read mentions a real good slider. or am I imagining things again?
 
blueagleace1 said:
Enscheff, serious question here..

Let me preface this with you seem to be a knowledgeable person who understands analytics and can bring a lot to a public forum. But with that being said, people have a hard time carrying on a conversation with you because of your objectivity and arrogance (whether you mean to come across as that or not) towards other posters. Just my opinion, and it's only that but you come across as one who automatically thinks your right and the other person is wrong before ever giving them a chance to explain. This isn't meant to be an attack or anything to the contrary, as like I said you can at times post some really insightful stuff but just in the wrong tone. So my question...

Why do you post on here?

Would love to hear your answer.
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Enscheff any answer here my friend??
 
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