Couple 3B options

[nsacpi]

The more I think about it, why not just see what Ruiz can do with Garcia spelling him? If he struggles, make it a straight platoon or just switch over to Garcia before making a deadline/off season move for an upgrade. Ruiz had a 117 wRC+ in AAA last year and a walk rate of 11.4%... at his age, you have to like that, especially after the adjustments he made. His K rate was a little higher than I'd like with his power output, but again... he's still really young. He could surprise quite a few people as a 22 year old, still growing into his power at 6'1" and 230.

I like Ruiz but as you said he is young and still developing. The best thing to do with him is have him spend some time in AAA at the start of the season. If he takes a big step forward and there is a need at the major league level we can then call him up.

I would go with Garcia as our regular third baseman this year. I would also sign KJ as our primary left-handed pinch hitter and as someone who could play third once a week. Having KJ, Peterson and Ruiz available provides us with some options if Garcia plays poorly.

I think this team is positioned to make one big acquisition that would upgrade third or the rotation. But probably not both without decimating the farm system or greatly compromising our future financial flexibility. Which one to make turns on how the third base options develop (Garcia, Ruiz, Riley) compared to the starting pitching (Wisler, Folty, the guys on the farm). We will have a much better idea in July or next off-season which moves makes the most sense for this team.

Having said that, sometimes you have to strike while the iron is hot. If we could pick up Longoria on a great price now we should. If we could pick up Sale on a great price now we should. Waiting makes sense. But if an exceptional deal becomes available you need to be flexible.

 

[zbhargrove]

Adonis put up an OPS of .789 in the second half (301 PAs). There is a case to be made that his baseline is around .740-750.

I think Adonis is a solid player... you just look at his tenure with the Yankees and he never got a chance despite putting up pretty good numbers in the minors. Granted, his window won't be open for long as he is approaching 32 years of age. Still, he doesn't have a lot of miles on him for a 32 year old. I think he could maybe be a trade candidate by deadline time if he builds on his success.

 

[zbhargrove]

I like Ruiz but as you said he is young and still developing. The best thing to do with him is have him spend some time in AAA at the start of the season. If he takes a big step forward and there is a need at the major league level we can then call him up.

I would go with Garcia as our regular third baseman this year. I would also sign KJ as our primary left-handed pinch hitter and as someone who could play third once a week. Having KJ and Ruiz available provides us with some options if Garcia plays poorly.

I can't argue with that... no mater what, I'd start Ruiz in AAA unless he just forces our hand with a huge spring.

 

[thethe]

Adonis put up an OPS of .789 in the second half (301 PAs). There is a case to be made that his baseline is around .740-750.

It's confusing how 3b all of a sudden became a need. Garcia was solid last year and would be the 7th hitter in the order so it's not as if we need a stud there. Would it be nice? Siure but the starting rotation is the number 1 area for improvement even with the recent additions.

 

[thethe]

I think Adonis is a solid player... you just look at his tenure with the Yankees and he never got a chance despite putting up pretty good numbers in the minors. Granted, his window won't be open for long as he is approaching 32 years of age. Still, he doesn't have a lot of miles on him for a 32 year old. I think he could maybe be a trade candidate by deadline time if he builds on his success.

Most important is that hes cheap. No need to upgrade for at least a year with an expensive player for a marginal return on the asset we have already.

 

[thewupk]

More consistent power, but not as good of a hitter... he may be a better defender, but I don't know if its that significant. The fact is that Plouffe is only a marginal upgrade at best. I mean Garcia had a wRC+ of 90 last year and Plouffe had a wRC+ of 91... there's really not much difference and a platoon would likely be quite a bit better.

Plouffe from 2014 and 2015 is a clear upgrade over Adonis. Now whether Plouffe can rebound to that is another question entirely but he has a higher ceiling for sure.

 

[thethe]

I can't argue with that... no mater what, I'd start Ruiz in AAA unless he just forces our hand with a huge spring.

Not sure if I agree. Ruiz did enough to be promoted last year. I want to see the braves enstill a merticroacy culture. That type of environment breeds the best competition in my eyes.

 

[nsacpi]

Not sure if I agree. Ruiz did enough to be promoted last year. I want to see the braves enstill a merticroacy culture. That type of environment breeds the best competition in my eyes.

He had a 22% K rate with an ISO of .129 in AAA. In a meritocratic system, that gets you some additional time to improve in AAA. He also had a 337 BABIP, which raises the question of whether he had some luck last year.

 

[zbhargrove]

Not sure if I agree. Ruiz did enough to be promoted last year. I want to see the braves enstill a merticroacy culture. That type of environment breeds the best competition in my eyes.

At his age, with his tools, he could stand some more development.

 

[thethe]

He had a 22% K rate with an ISO of .129 in AAA. In a meritocratic system, that gets you some additional time to improve in AAA. He also had a 337 BABIP, which raises the question of whether he had some luck last year.

His numbers were deflated from an extended slump early in the year. He showed resiliency by getting past that which one of the boxes u like to see checked before promoting a prospect. His defense received positive reviews.

The argument I see holding ruiz back has more to do with seeing what Garcia can do everyday. Ruiz needs everyday ABS and right now he is second on the totem pole for the major leagues.

 

[thethe]

At his age, with his tools, he could stand some more development.

Most prospects could. That's why I'll leave it to the professionals to make that judgement. If he is held back then I will agree you guys were right.

 

[zbhargrove]

Plouffe from 2014 and 2015 is a clear upgrade over Adonis. Now whether Plouffe can rebound to that is another question entirely but he has a higher ceiling for sure.

Depends... 2014 and 2015 wouldn't be a clear upgrade compared with Garcia's second half last year. There's not enough of a sample size for Garcia to glean if that's more what we can expect going forward or just a hot streak. Garcia's longest season in AAA showed a 127 wRC+ and an OPS well over .800... granted his BABIP was .348... still, Garcia has had success all throughout the minors, but because he was signed old and he hasn't put up the gaudy stats, he's flown under the radar.

 

[clvclv]

I like Ruiz but as you said he is young and still developing. The best thing to do with him is have him spend some time in AAA at the start of the season. If he takes a big step forward and there is a need at the major league level we can then call him up.

I would go with Garcia as our regular third baseman this year. I would also sign KJ as our primary left-handed pinch hitter and as someone who could play third once a week. Having KJ, Peterson and Ruiz available provides us with some options if Garcia plays poorly.

I think this team is positioned to make one big acquisition that would upgrade third or the rotation. But probably not both without decimating the farm system or greatly compromising our future financial flexibility. Which one to make turns on how the third base options develop (Garcia, Ruiz, Riley) compared to the starting pitching (Wisler, Folty, the guys on the farm). We will have a much better idea in July or next off-season which moves makes the most sense for this team.

Having said that, sometimes you have to strike while the iron is hot. If we could pick up Longoria on a great price now we should. If we could pick up Sale on a great price now we should. Waiting makes sense. But if an exceptional deal becomes available you need to be flexible.

Just me, but I'd just as soon move on - from both KJ and Frenchy - save that money for midseason additions (if there are any OR the money isn't spent prior to the season).

I look at it this way - between Jace and d'Arnaud, we've got "super-subs" covered, and when you add Mallex' and Ender's versatility there really isn't much need for a 5th OF. If you're really thinking about tossing several million at KJ and Frenchy to be rah-rah guys and pinch-hitters and you're not sold enough on Ruiz to make him part of a platoon over there, spend that money (and a little more) on Valbuena since he's an obvious upgrade over Rio, KJ, or Frenchy.

We're obviously not going to need to spend money on pen vets in 2017, so if you usually hold back $3-$4 million for that and you were going to give KJ and Frenchy a couple million each you could pay for a Valbuena addition.

 

[nsacpi]

Just me, but I'd just as soon move on - from both KJ and Frenchy - save that money for midseason additions (if there are any OR the money isn't spent prior to the season).

Actually spending less on KJ than would be spent on Valbuena will leave us with more flexibility for mid-season moves.

 

[clvclv]

Completely misses my point. We've continued to hear talk about bringing Frenchy back as well.

KJ - $2.5 million plus incentives (he got $2 million last season)
Frenchy - $2 million (he got $1 million last season)
EOF - $1.75 million
Ogando - $2 million

There's $8+ million to sign Valbuena with just from vets we signed last season that did very little to help the team. As a Posi-Brave, I loved having them around, but they were as likely here to appease Fredi and Bobby as anything else. I understand the argument that we might be able to use them to add more marginal prospects later in the year (I was one of the ones making it), but that part of the rebuild has passed.

There's really no need to go dumpster-diving anymore IMO. Sign guys like Colon, Dickey, and Valbuena if you're going to go get "placeholders" - not only are they guys who will get you better prospects IF Wisler/Blair/Newcomb/Ruiz/etc. take steps forward, they also will give you a better chance to win games now.

 

[thethe]

Completely misses my point. We've continued to hear talk about bringing Frenchy back as well.

KJ - $2.5 million plus incentives (he got $2 million last season)
Frenchy - $2 million
EOF - $1.75 million
Ogando - $2 million

There's $8+ million to sign Valbuena with just from vets we signed last season that did very little to help the team. As a Posi-Brave, I loved having them around, but they were as likely here to appease Fredi and Bobby as anything else. I understand the argument that we might be able to use them to add more marginal prospects later in the year (I was one of the ones making it), but that part of the rebuild has passed.

There's really no need to go dumpster-diving anymore IMO. Sign guys like Colon, Dickey, and Valbuena if you're going to go get "placeholders" - not only are they guys who will get you better prospects IF Wisler/Blair/Newcomb/Ruiz/etc. take steps forward, they also will give you a better chance to win games now.

Agreed. I think the majority of future improvements will come internally. Its all about bridging that gap and that seems to be the goal this offseason.

I'd like to see Valbuena as well but only on a 1&1 deal.

 

[nsacpi]

I think Valbuena will get a significantly better deal than one year for $8M. More like 30M over 3 years.

 

[clvclv]

I think Valbuena will get a significantly better deal than one year for $8M. More like 30M over 3 years.

I don't disagree with that in the least. And personally would rather spend money on him over there and make Rio trade-bait in other deals.

Knowing that I'm not that big a numbers-guy (maybe some of you who are better with them can check if you're interested), I'd rather sign Valbuena, then pass on Castro and make a deal for Stephen Vogt with some of our extra arms since Vogt is still under control for awhile. I'm sure he's not nearly as good defensively as Castro, but I'd think he and Valbuena would make the offense stronger than Castro and Rio.

 

[zbhargrove]

I don't disagree with that in the least. And personally would rather spend money on him over there and make Rio trade-bait in other deals.

Knowing that I'm not that big a numbers-guy (maybe some of you who are better with them can check if you're interested), I'd rather sign Valbuena, then pass on Castro and make a deal for Stephen Vogt with some of our extra arms since Vogt is still under control for awhile. I'm sure he's not nearly as good defensively as Castro, but I'd think he and Valbuena would make the offense stronger than Castro and Rio.

Vogt is simply not that good... he had an amazing first half in 2015 which people still remember, but he had a terrible second half and was only mediocre at best last year (total OPS of .711). Even with his red hot first half in 2015, he still ended up with only a .784 OPS which was his best year by far. He's also an extreme splits guy (.603 career OPS against lefties and .759 OPS against righties). He's also not a good defender and is 31. Flowers is probably a better overall catcher and we already have him... and Flowers doesn't have any noticeable splits. He's pretty much hit lefties and righties equally in his career.

 

[clvclv]

Vogt is simply not that good... he had an amazing first half in 2015 which people still remember, but he had a terrible second half and was only mediocre at best last year (total OPS of .711). Even with his red hot first half in 2015, he still ended up with only a .784 OPS which was his best year by far. He's also an extreme splits guy (.603 career OPS against lefties and .759 OPS against righties). He's also not a good defender and is 31. Flowers is probably a better overall catcher and we already have him... and Flowers doesn't have any noticeable splits. He's pretty much hit lefties and righties equally in his career.

Just not a fan of giving $30 million to a platoon Catcher. Would prefer paying Castro rather than Wieters, but would rather give