zbhargrove
Well-known member
I just don't get the need for a platoon catcher if we are sticking with Flowers anyways since he doesn't have a clear splits profile through his career. Castro would only make things slightly better against righties.
Couple 3B options
- Thread starter blueagleace1
- Start date
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Castro would take away about 250 at bats from Recker and a similar amount from Flowers. Most of those at bat will be against righties. When you account for his defensive superiority there will be an upgrade. I dont want to exaggerate the magnitude. We're talking about 1 win, maybe 1.5.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
I understand the upgrade... I just don't know if its worth what it sounds like he's asking for. I think we need another catcher, because Recker has no offensive upside whatsoever.... he's an offensive black hole... but we can fix that without paying 10+ million a year for a part time catcher, can't we?
The main reason I'd prefer to spend the money on Valbuena is that I think he'd come closer to making a 3B platoon solid offensively. With all the non-believers in Garcia and Ruiz around here - and I'm not questioning whether they're right - Valbuena would seem to be more helpful if you think the second half of last season was a mirage.
That's more or less the point I was making - given the fact that several teams are "on" Castro, do we really want to push to a fourth year or $12 to $13 million per to get him?
After all, you can't frame a knuckler, and there's not a whole lot of thinking and positioning involved with catching Big Sexy - everybody pretty much knows what's coming, and you kinda just lean to the side you want it when he's out there - LOL.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I suppose the question of an upgrade at catcher versus third turns in part on the relative prices of Valbuena and Castro (and alternatives at their position).
I do like what we have in-house at third better than what we have at catcher, both in terms what is or relatively close to major league ready and what is a bit further up the pipeline. So I have felt that catcher would be where we upgrade this off-season. But if the prices for Castro, Wieters and others end up being unreasonable, I am ok with going with Flowers and Recker.
To put it another way, I'm more willing to do a slight overpay for Castro than I am for Valbuena. But I'm not interested in getting into a crazy bidding war for either.
I do like what we have in-house at third better than what we have at catcher, both in terms what is or relatively close to major league ready and what is a bit further up the pipeline. So I have felt that catcher would be where we upgrade this off-season. But if the prices for Castro, Wieters and others end up being unreasonable, I am ok with going with Flowers and Recker.
To put it another way, I'm more willing to do a slight overpay for Castro than I am for Valbuena. But I'm not interested in getting into a crazy bidding war for either.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Everybody wants to significantly upgrade a position without having to give anything of significance up. Who wouldn't?
The best place for that is to sign a FA. However, this year's class isn't good for that, nor much else. Turner is probably the best available and he has a QO AND is already 32.
So, the likely spot where a real upgrade could be had would be through trade. But, it's unlikely to be: three handfull of crap for Longoria. And even if a trade with the Rays WERE possible, Longoria comes with some big risk in that he costs a lot and is getting older.
To me, if 3B is to be upgraded, I would prefer to see the Braves target 3B Alex Bregman of Houston. Now, before you say that would NEVER happen, consider that they spent big money on Yulieski Gurriel and have Colin Moran and JD Davis in their minor leagues.
The problem is, that to get it done, the Braves would have to be willing to give up significant pieces. I'm thinking it would take AT LEAST: CF Inciarte, Vizcaino, Garcia and Blair for 3B Bregman and OF Aoki
Braves replace Inciarte with M Smith in CF and use Aoki as 4th OF (his money offsets any coming from Braves), Viz gives Houston a pen arm that can close, Garcia is a back up 3B for Gurriel and Blair is a back of the rotation arm who could be something more. Obviously, the majority of the real value coming from the Braves is Inciarte and the Astros is Bregman. And, even though Inciarte has a lot of value and the Astros need a CF, they still may not want to move Bregman for the offer I have above.
I don't think I would want to go much more from the Braves side, maybe exchange Wisler for Blair is about as far as I would go, but if Houston values Inciarte as much as Braves fans do, then it could get done.
The you could have:
2B Albies
SS Swanson
3B Bregman
1B Freeman
LF Kemp
RF Markakis
C Flowers/Recker/Signing
CF Smith
The best place for that is to sign a FA. However, this year's class isn't good for that, nor much else. Turner is probably the best available and he has a QO AND is already 32.
So, the likely spot where a real upgrade could be had would be through trade. But, it's unlikely to be: three handfull of crap for Longoria. And even if a trade with the Rays WERE possible, Longoria comes with some big risk in that he costs a lot and is getting older.
To me, if 3B is to be upgraded, I would prefer to see the Braves target 3B Alex Bregman of Houston. Now, before you say that would NEVER happen, consider that they spent big money on Yulieski Gurriel and have Colin Moran and JD Davis in their minor leagues.
The problem is, that to get it done, the Braves would have to be willing to give up significant pieces. I'm thinking it would take AT LEAST: CF Inciarte, Vizcaino, Garcia and Blair for 3B Bregman and OF Aoki
Braves replace Inciarte with M Smith in CF and use Aoki as 4th OF (his money offsets any coming from Braves), Viz gives Houston a pen arm that can close, Garcia is a back up 3B for Gurriel and Blair is a back of the rotation arm who could be something more. Obviously, the majority of the real value coming from the Braves is Inciarte and the Astros is Bregman. And, even though Inciarte has a lot of value and the Astros need a CF, they still may not want to move Bregman for the offer I have above.
I don't think I would want to go much more from the Braves side, maybe exchange Wisler for Blair is about as far as I would go, but if Houston values Inciarte as much as Braves fans do, then it could get done.
The you could have:
2B Albies
SS Swanson
3B Bregman
1B Freeman
LF Kemp
RF Markakis
C Flowers/Recker/Signing
CF Smith
What part of "untouchable" keeps getting missed here? Bregman gets traded about the same day that Moncada does.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I forgot you worked for Houston.
Is Albies "untouchable?" You just traded him for Archer.
If Sale goes on the market and Boston wants him it's almost a certainty that Moncada++ goes the other way.
No prospect or player is "untouchable." Miguel Cabrera was traded. I will grant you that some players are very, very unlikely to be traded such as Mike Trout, simply because they have franchise value above and beyond their baseball skills.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Agree.
And I think the Astros see their time as now so a team willing to help them fill holes MAY be able to pick off some of that position player depth.
And I think the Astros see their time as now so a team willing to help them fill holes MAY be able to pick off some of that position player depth.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
fowler makes a lot of sense for them
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
He does
But he works for other teams as well.
Any Braves/Astros deal would likely have to wait until Fowler is off the board.
Garcia isn't very good.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
So, you're saying Inciarte isn't any good?
Ha. No, I'm saying no one will ever give us Bregman for that package. Period. There's no point in discussing it.
Maybe you should have said something catchy like "take a pill".
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think it is pretty close to fair value. I don't think it gets done because trading for someone like Inciarte is probably plan C or plan D from the Astros' perspective. Plan A might be to sign Fowler to play center. Plan B might be to play Springer in center, with Reddick in right and Gurriel in left.