Dansby being sent down to AAA

smootness said:
Yes. Sorry, I need to read the whole thread first.
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What I did so I would not address things piecemeal.
Stating the obvious: should have gone down weeks ago. I honestly believe the front office did not believe or expect Camargo to emerge as a legit major league player, much less one of the team's most versatile and valuable contributors. Finally sold. I believe it was Snitker seeing the light on Camargo earlier and standing by his guns and having him in the lineup over Dansby.
Props to Snit, who nonetheless has made plenty of bad pitching decisions along the way. He's still not a lock to renew, IMO.
Blair also going down, Sims starting today. That means, to mean, reliever up for a few days, Sims getting a callup after the weekend to pitch Tuesday. Also agree that Jace is the convenient callup for Swanson, even though Sean Kazmer deserves it.
Now, here's me alone, out on a limb....

If I am front office, I gently tell Dansby he needs to quit hiding behind that faceplate. Francoeur had the same injury, yet he got past it for a good career. Maybe they should talk.
 
I don't think Dansby ever should have gone down, and he never should have been benched. Camargo is playing well, though at an unsustainable level, so he needs to be in the lineup as well. Trade Adams, move Freddie back to 1B, play Dansby at SS and Camargo at 3B.
 
smootness said:
I don't think Dansby ever should have gone down, and he never should have been benched. Camargo is playing well, though at an unsustainable level, so he needs to be in the lineup as well. Trade Adams, move Freddie back to 1B, play Dansby at SS and Camargo at 3B.
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Last 10 games for camargo...

9/40 (.225) 0 bb 10 k

Hopefully he gets it going again vs phillies, but I think he's back to earth
 
smootness said:
I don't think Dansby ever should have gone down, and he never should have been benched. Camargo is playing well, though at an unsustainable level, so he needs to be in the lineup as well. Trade Adams, move Freddie back to 1B, play Dansby at SS and Camargo at 3B.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Dansby has been terrible. They should have sent him down when they decided he wasn't going to play every day. I agree with that position.

I think if I'm the front office, I want to see Camargo at short in the majors for awhile and I want to see where his bat settles as the BABIP evens out and pitchers start honing in on his weaknesses. And I would want to shake Dansby up a bit and give him a chance to work with purpose.
 
Southcack77 said:
I disagree. Dansby has been terrible. They should have sent him down when they decided he wasn't going to play every day. I agree with that position.

I think if I'm the front office, I want to see Camargo at short in the majors for awhile and I want to see where his bat settles as the BABIP evens out and pitchers start honing in on his weaknesses. And I would want to shake Dansby up a bit and give him a chance to work with purpose.
Click to expand...

Swanson in June...

.306/.355/.418

7.5% bb

16.8 k

.354 BABIP

He then got benched a few PAs into July
 
Southcack77 said:
I disagree. Dansby has been terrible. They should have sent him down when they decided he wasn't going to play every day. I agree with that position.

I think if I'm the front office, I want to see Camargo at short in the majors for awhile and I want to see where his bat settles as the BABIP evens out and pitchers start honing in on his weaknesses. And I would want to shake Dansby up a bit and give him a chance to work with purpose.
Click to expand...

Well, like I said, I don't think he ever should have been benched.

We have a pretty good idea of where Camargo's bat is going to end up. We have 5 full years of him hitting in the minors prior to this year to give us a good idea. If his increase in power this year is for real, he can be a decent enough SS. If it's not entirely real, then he'll be an ok utility guy.

Swanson is still the future at SS. Camargo is not going to change that, the only thing that can change that is Dansby busting. And neither benching him or sending him down to AAA is as good for his development as playing every day in the majors. His slash line by month this year:
April - .156/.200/.233
May - .216/.336/.341
June - .306/.355/.418

Then we gave him all of 3 games in July before we started sitting him. Why on earth would we do that? Right as he's turning things around? Of course his overall season slash line still looked bad, look at where he started. But he was much better in May than he had been in April and was pretty stinking good in June. Please, someone tell me why we started benching him. I'll tell you why - because Snitker looked at his overall season numbers, saw Camargo start out hot, and decided we needed to see more of Camargo than Dansby. Stupid.
 
Also, the 4 games prior to Dansby's benching: 3-13, 3 BB, 3 K. Again, why was he ever benched?

The 9 games after he started being benched: 2-32, 3 BB, 13 K. Hmmmm, I wonder what could have caused him to start pressing...
 
smootness said:
Well, like I said, I don't think he ever should have been benched.

We have a pretty good idea of where Camargo's bat is going to end up. We have 5 full years of him hitting in the minors prior to this year to give us a good idea. If his increase in power this year is for real, he can be a decent enough SS. If it's not entirely real, then he'll be an ok utility guy.

Swanson is still the future at SS. Camargo is not going to change that, the only thing that can change that is Dansby busting. And neither benching him or sending him down to AAA is as good for his development as playing every day in the majors. His slash line by month this year:

April - .156/.200/.233

May - .216/.336/.341

June - .306/.355/.418

Then we gave him all of 3 games in July before we started sitting him. Why on earth would we do that? Right as he's turning things around? Of course his overall season slash line still looked bad, look at where he started. But he was much better in May than he had been in April and was pretty stinking good in June. Please, someone tell me why we started benching him. I'll tell you why - because Snitker looked at his overall season numbers, saw Camargo start out hot, and decided we needed to see more of Camargo than Dansby. Stupid.
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Yep. I was for snit getting a shot at the job, but not any more. When guys like kemp are above benching, but one of our best young assets isn't, we've got a problem
 
rico43 said:
What I did so I would not address things piecemeal.
Stating the obvious: should have gone down weeks ago. I honestly believe the front office did not believe or expect Camargo to emerge as a legit major league player, much less one of the team's most versatile and valuable contributors. Finally sold. I believe it was Snitker seeing the light on Camargo earlier and standing by his guns and having him in the lineup over Dansby.
Props to Snit, who nonetheless has made plenty of bad pitching decisions along the way. He's still not a lock to renew, IMO.
Blair also going down, Sims starting today. That means, to mean, reliever up for a few days, Sims getting a callup after the weekend to pitch Tuesday. Also agree that Jace is the convenient callup for Swanson, even though Sean Kazmer deserves it.
Now, here's me alone, out on a limb....

If I am front office, I gently tell Dansby he needs to quit hiding behind that faceplate. Francoeur had the same injury, yet he got past it for a good career. Maybe they should talk.
Click to expand...

Heyward seemed to forget how to hit once he got the facemask as well.

It's a perfect example of correlation not equaling causation I'm sure. That said, I'm for exploring all options, superstitious or otherwise, that might help Dansby learn how to hit, including but not limited to sacrificing live chickens.
 
msstate7 said:
Swanson in June...
.306/.355/.418
7.5% bb
16.8 k
.354 BABIP

He then got benched a few PAs into July
Click to expand...

He's hitting .123 since June 24. His wRC+ over that period is 3.

June is the only month that he hasn't been a very below average hitter. His BABIP popped way up and he cut down on the Ks. Maybe he saw a weaker group of pitchers.
 
They rushed Dansby just like some of us said. They were invested, so instead of handling him the way they would almost any other prospect they kept hoping against hope that he would figure it out. He never has, not really, not for any extended time. That's on the GM and the FO.

As the year has gone on, the Manager, whose job it is to win games, decided to bench the prize pupil in favor of the hotter hand (regardless if the hot hand could possibly maintain), which created the opportunity for the FO to send him down with limited egg.

The promotion of Dansby was a marketing move, certainly never a smart baseball move. There were several real baseball and financial reasons not to promote him. There was only one reason to promote him - to try to put more fans in the new park.

It has blown up in their faces. And quite possibly ruined a player who otherwise may have been at least a serviceable ML player, if not a star. Let's hope he can get things turned around. Let's hope the FO can get things turned around with their decision making process.
 
Southcack77 said:
He's hitting .123 since June 24. His wRC+ over that period is 3.

June is the only month that he hasn't been a very below average hitter. His BABIP popped way up and he cut down on the Ks. Maybe he saw a weaker group of pitchers.
Click to expand...

And it's dragged down by a .108 mark since being benched and not playing consistently.
 
Where does Coppy fall on the Dansby debacle? Surely your GM couldn't tell the manager to play or not play a guy in the interest of trades/development/contracts? Do you think it took coppy 3 weeks to realize Dansby wasn't playing and he needed to be sent down? As much as I dislike Game7, Coppy holds a bearing of the burden in this.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Where does Coppy fall on the Dansby debacle? Surely your GM couldn't tell the manager to play or not play a guy in the interest of trades/development/contracts? Do you think it took coppy 3 weeks to realize Dansby wasn't playing and he needed to be sent down? As much as I dislike Game7, Coppy holds a bearing of the burden in this.
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Honestly I bet it was one of the John's above him that suggested Swanson needed to be sent down.
 
smootness said:
And it's dragged down by a .108 mark since being benched and not playing consistently.
Click to expand...

Between June 24 and July 7 he started 11 of 12 games and went 6/40 (.146) with a 35% K rate and a 7% walk rate. wRC+ of 22.

he then had multiple PA in 7/10 games between July 9 and July 22 in which he managed 1 hit in 26 PA striking out 30% of the time.
 
Southcack77 said:
Between June 24 and July 7 he started 11 of 12 games and went 6/40 (.146) with a 35% K rate and a 7% walk rate. wRC+ of 22.

he then had multiple PA in 7/10 games between July 9 and July 22 in which he managed 1 hit in 26 PA striking out 30% of the time.
Click to expand...

during that same stretch.. Kemp hit .143/.217/.167 with putrid defense. Did he get benched?
 
Ok fellas...pretty simple. If Dansby has been "wrongly" benched...he will go to AAA and kill it. Even Danny Santana did that. He will force their hand, and they will bring him back up. I promise you, they want their poster boy back as soon as possible. He has to EARN it this time. Crap...he wasn't even doing that great in AA when he was promoted. If he is this great player just on the verge of tearing out...he should destroy AAA. If he doesn't...he is right where he needs to be. It's pretty simple.
 
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