David Price expects to be dealt

[thethe]

The only way signing Mac makes sense is if Gattis is used in a trade to fix 2B (I agree with wholeheartedly) or to bring in an Ace (I don't agree with). At that point signing Mac is almost mandatory.

Teams like the Braves have to be smart about allocating their resources. It is not smart to spend 10%-15% of the payroll on a position where you can get comparable production for peanuts. So use that money to fix 2B where the production is less than zero.

No faith in LaStella? I wouldn't trade such a valueable piece when we might have an in house replacement that is at least worth trying out. If you want to hedge that risk with a one year deal to someone like Kelly Johnson then fine but to trade such a valueable piece like Gattis doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[nsacpi]

Why in the world would we NOT give Gattis a try at catcher next year?

Nothing wrong with it.

But I think there is a scenario that would be preferable. That would involve an All-Star catcher (McCann) signing with us at a below market rate, which would transform Gattis into a valuable trading chip.

If McCann isn't willing to offer a discount, I'm happy to go with Gattis at catcher next year.

 

[Heyward]

No way we get Price. Price will net multiple 5 start prospects.

Only shot we have at Price is by giving up Heyward or Freeman and more. And we'd be morons to do that.

I'd give them Heyward if he doesn't sign an extension.

And Price would sign an extension with us.

 

[Heyward]

I agree. Their pen is bad even if they re-sign Rodney. I think they could possibly want Walden to be their closer. So Wood/Sims/Bethancourt/Walden would be a damn fine offer. Everyone keeps saying some team will offer a stud prospect but Wood would be a top 25 prospect if he was eligible. Sickels is the most credible top prospect list out right now, BA and BP will release later on, but he has Simms at 60 and which is pretty high praise for a prospect in low A ball. Simms should only go up on that list next year. We can only wait and see what other teams will offer but the Braves can and probably will make a significant offer.

Tampa laughs at that.

Put in Kimbrel over Walden and we might be going somewhere.

 

[Heyward]

I just remember everyone in here saying we have no shot at getting Justin Upton unless we deal Simmons, etc..

The offseason is unpredictable.

Price is different, we don't have the ammo for him, it's simple.

And Towers is a moron, TB has probably the best GM in the game, he's not stupid.

 

[Heyward]

I would sign Mac as long as the price isn't insane.

Like not 5-75+, just too much for a guy in his 30's with other guys due big deals soon.

 

[nsacpi]

We should definitely try to deal with stupid teams. On that I think we are all in agreement. Angels. Royals, Diamondbacks. Those are my top 3 for most stupid.

The Rockies are also pretty stupid but they tend to be hard to deal with.

 

[BRule]

I'm just going to say it. I don't think we need to go out and get a pitcher yet. Maybe sign Hudson to a one year deal?

Beachy

Medlen

Minor

Teheran

Huddy

Wood

Hale

Graham

That's pretty solid right now. I'd rather wait and see if we can finally get Beachy healthy. Yeah, maybe you can get Price for Medlen and a prospect then you pull the trigger, but I don't think we need a starter.

Not sure how anyone can include Beachy in anything, so if you look at the rest of that group....I don't see any T.O.R guys....maybe T in a few years? If you want to go deep into the playoffs and win a ring, chances are you are going to need an Ace or two.

 

[emk418]

Not sure how anyone can include Beachy in anything, so if you look at the rest of that group....I don't see any T.O.R guys....maybe T in a few years? If you want to go deep into the playoffs and win a ring, chances are you are going to need an Ace or two.

We didn't move on this year because our offense was atrocious again. We have more than enough very good options for the rotation so the only way I bring in a SP is if it's a true top of the rotation starter.

 

[nsacpi]

Aces are not risk free. A list of pitchers who were aces at various points in the past three years but did not pitch like aces in 2013: Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Roy Halladay, Jered Weaver, Colby Lewis, Yovani Gallardo, Tim Lincecum, Dan Haren, Ian Kennedy, Matt Garza, Matt Cain, RA Dickey, Johnny Cueto, Gio Gonzalez, CC Sabathia. Matt Harvey pitched like an ace this year but will not be playing baseball next year.

I'm ok with acknowledging the downside risks to young pitchers like Teheran and Wood not developing further. We should also acknowledge that aces are quite risky as well.

 

[emk418]

Aces are not risk free. A list of pitchers who were aces at various points in the past three years but did not pitch like aces in 2013: Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Roy Halladay, Jered Weaver, Colby Lewis, Yovani Gallardo, Tim Lincecum, Dan Haren, Ian Kennedy, Matt Garza, Matt Cain, RA Dickey, Johnny Cueto, Gio Gonzalez, CC Sabathia. Matt Harvey pitched like an ace this year but will not be playing baseball next year.

I'm ok with acknowledging the downside risks to young pitchers like Teheran and Wood not developing further. We should also acknowledge that aces are quite risky as well.

That's why I'm comfortable going into next year with Minor, Medlen, Teheran, Beachy, Wood as our starting 5. We obviously would have to build up some depth but that could be one of the better rotations out there.

 

[BRule]

Aces are not risk free. A list of pitchers who were aces at various points in the past three years but did not pitch like aces in 2013: Josh Johnson, Ubaldo Jimenez, Roy Halladay, Jered Weaver, Colby Lewis, Yovani Gallardo, Tim Lincecum, Dan Haren, Ian Kennedy, Matt Garza, Matt Cain, RA Dickey, Johnny Cueto, Gio Gonzalez, CC Sabathia. Matt Harvey pitched like an ace this year but will not be playing baseball next year.

I'm ok with acknowledging the downside risks to young pitchers like Teheran and Wood not developing further. We should also acknowledge that aces are quite risky as well.

Everyone has risk....but if you look at WS champs 9 out of 10 times they have a stud ace. Pretty sure the only team in the last 15 years that didn't was STL in 06 but Carp was their #1 and could probably be considered an Ace back then or close to it.

 

[BRule]

We didn't move on this year because our offense was atrocious again. We have more than enough very good options for the rotation so the only way I bring in a SP is if it's a true top of the rotation starter.

I would argue that's not true....T getting lit up was a big turning point. Our O also went up against Kershaw, an ace, twice in 4 games.

 

[nsacpi]

Everyone has risk....but if you look at WS champs 9 out of 10 times they have a stud ace. Pretty sure the only team in the last 15 years that didn't was STL in 06 but Carp was their #1 and could probably be considered an Ace back then or close to it.

I agree that having a dominant pitcher or two is what we should be seeking. I would argue, however, it makes more sense for us to be a bit patient and give the guys we have a chance to develop.

Look at the peripherals Teheran and Wood put up. 8.2 strikeouts per 9 innings and 2.2 walks per nine innings for Teheran. For Wood, it was 8.9 and 3.1. That's pretty close to elite levels. And they did this at age 22. They only need to improve a little to become elite pitchers.

Minor too is at an age it wouldn't where some additional improvement is expected. He was at 8.0 and 2.0.

You get Wood to cut his walk rate by 0.5 or Minor and Teheran increase their strikeout rate by 0.5 and you've got an elite pitcher. I think there is a lack of appreciation of how close those guys are to pitchers like Lee and Hamels who have led their teams to post-season success.

 

[yeezus]

The problem with just looking at peripherals is that they ignore something very important to ace pitchers - innings pitched. Ace pitchers like Waino throw an absurd amount of innings and single-handedly win games, completely by themselves. I'm not saying Wood and Teheran can't someday throw 220-240 innings in a full season or average almost 7 IP, but they aren't there yet. Their pitch counts get too high to stay in games right now, and who knows whether or not they'll ever reach that point.

 

[yeezus]

David Price gutted out a CG to move the Rays into the post-season. He threw an amazing game and made big pitches. Who knows if any of our current guys will ever be able to do that. As Brule said, we saw Kershaw twice and he dominated us. He locked us down when things got tough in game 1, and held us at bay in game 4.

 

[thethe]

I'm willing to be patient with our pitchers right now. its very rare to have guys who are studs right out of the gate. It even took Wainwright a couple of years. The Kershaws/King Felixs are few and far inbetween.

I like the chances of Julio turning into that guy. He was gassed by the end of the year. Next year he should be good to go 220+ innings.

 

[thethe]

David Price gutted out a CG to move the Rays into the post-season. He threw an amazing game and made big pitches. Who knows if any of our current guys will ever be able to do that. As Brule said, we saw Kershaw twice and he dominated us. He locked us down when things got tough in game 1, and held us at bay in game 4.

He also let up 7 runs in his next start.

 

[nsacpi]

Wainwright IP the past three seasons: 0, 199, 241

Price IP the past three seasons: 224, 211, 187

 

[Knucksie]

I wouldnt mind Headley either, but im a believer that Chris Johnsons season wasnt a fluke, and id love to have him around for the long haul.

Same here. He still making contact and finding holes against Dodgers pitching. The "sell high" posts are getting kind of tiresome from the herd mentality with some share at this place.