DOB: Braves offseason about to get a lot busier. - Gamel released.

clvclv said:
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While I do think they'll be a good team with Price, I have to disagree. No question you hold Price IF you think you're a LEGITIMATE contender with him. The problem is that they're not likely to be a legitimate contender with him unless Longoria AND Myers are both MVP candidates.

Friedman understands he's not going to get the return he got for Shields. The question is whether Wren's willing to go Wood/Bethancourt/Sims/Peraza. No one else has even hinted that they're willing to offer that type of package. Seattle MAY offer Walker OR Zunino, but not both. With Kinsler in Detroit and Cano in Seattle, there's no chance you get Profar. The Yankees couldn't match that package, Boston's not playing, the Dodgers certainly don't need to play on that level. Name anyone else that needs an "Ace" that's willing to offer up that much talent (Braves-colored glasses or not).

I didn't think we had a chance for the longest time, but I'm beginning to think that if Wren would put that offer on the table he gets him. Tanaka offers the big-market teams their way out - they can get their "Ace" by writing a check.
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Logical argument, but.

Agree with ncaspi, for Sale yes, or with a window to sign him to an extension, otherwise thats way too much.
 
clvclv said:
Sorry, but "for the last time", I don't believe in "for the last times" (unless you're willing to prove you're Frank Wren).
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Well, he's been very keen on trading top prospects.

Did it with alot on the current roster, and Sims may be next on that list.

Price is good, yes, but how much of an upgrade?

And getting him guarantees nothing.
 
Braves would be dumb to trade Sims. Onlyway a Price trade makes sense is if we trade Medlen to someone then include those prospects with Bethancourt and Wood for Price. Sims may not have maximized his value. If he goes to AA and succeeds he's a top 20 prospect most likely. He's not close to that yet.JMO
 
SAV do you have a vid of him pitching from the side. I'm trying to see if he reverse rotates his hips or not. His front leg action seems maybe a little fast and I'm wondering if that's what I'm seeing.
 
yeezus said:
If Lester is an ace, there's no reason Minor or Teheran can't be one.
Lester is not a true ace. There are very, very few.
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When Minor or Teheran throw up 4 consecutive 15+ win, sub 3.50 ERA seasons (no reason they can't, but it hasn't happened yet) get me on the horn pronto and we'll dub them into acehood.

This brings up a greater issue: there is no operating definition of an ace.

The 'very few' you allude to are more elite than ace, to me. To split hairs.

My tiers:
- Serviceable
- Quality
- Ace (Excellent: Darvish, Sabathia, Lester, Lee, etc.)
- Elite (Untouchables: Kershaw, King Felix, Verlander, Sale)
 
zitothebrave said:
Braves would be dumb to trade Sims. Onlyway a Price trade makes sense is if we trade Medlen to someone then include those prospects with Bethancourt and Wood for Price. Sims may not have maximized his value. If he goes to AA and succeeds he's a top 20 prospect most likely. He's not close to that yet.JMO
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Playing devil's advocate (which is what I do here 95% of the time, because I hate prevailing opinion): What if Sims doesn't succeed in AA? His lore diminishes and therefore so does his trade value. In fact, we see this more often than not with top-shelf low-level talent, especially arms. Sims has a great deal of developing to do. While I'm appreciative of his talent, I tend to take a much more guarded approach toward my views on what his future holds.
 
nsacpi said:
But I think the simple fact is that Price would be making so much it would crowd out the funding available to the others.
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Part of the problem is that nobody has a truly clear grasp on the Braves future financial structure. We know that the TV deal sucks (worst in MLB?), and we know that the organization is gearing up to foot a healthy portion of the stadium construction/development costs (we don't know if this is money they've been saving, or are going to borrow, siphon from operating expenses, etc.) A tidbit from McGuirk here, O'Brien there, and we're left to piece together the rest on our own. The one constant factor is Liberty - currently trying to buy Sirius XM for a billion plus - the money is there, has always been there. The question now is: could they possibly finally be beginning, with the impending construction of the stadium, and rebounding successful young team, to view the team as a true investment? If so, the money for Price and others is easily there.
 
Hawk said:
When Minor or Teheran throw up 4 consecutive 15+ win, sub 3.50 ERA seasons (no reason they can't, but it hasn't happened yet) get me on the horn pronto and we'll dub them into acehood.

This brings up a greater issue: there is no operating definition of an ace.

The 'very few' you allude to are more elite than ace, to me. To split hairs.

My tiers:

- Serviceable

- Quality

- Ace (Excellent: Darvish, Sabathia, Lester, Lee, etc.)

- Elite (Untouchables: Kershaw, King Felix, Verlander, Sale)
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To me, aces are the elite guys. Kershaw, Felix, Darvish, Lee, etc. Lester does not belong in that category. There's no reason Minor and Teheran can't be just as productive as Lester.
 
yeezus said:
To me, aces are the elite guys. Kershaw, Felix, Darvish, Lee, etc. Lester does not belong in that category. There's no reason Minor and Teheran can't be just as productive as Lester.
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I understand the distinction, hence the reason I tried to delineate ... I just feel like the popular connotation of ace is way overused and there needs to be a greater deference afforded to guys like Kershaw/Hernandez (who aren't in the same class as Lee/Darvish, to me.) As I pointed out earlier in the thread, the media was freely and universally hailing Ubaldo Jimenez an ace after one good season in 2010.

For the record, I don't see Price as elite.
 
Hawk said:
Part of the problem is that nobody has a truly clear grasp on the Braves future financial structure. We know that the TV deal sucks (worst in MLB?), and we know that the organization is gearing up to foot a healthy portion of the stadium construction/development costs (we don't know if this is money they've been saving, or are going to borrow, siphon from operating expenses, etc.) A tidbit from McGuirk here, O'Brien there, and we're left to piece together the rest on our own. The one constant factor is Liberty - currently trying to buy Sirius XM for a billion plus - the money is there, has always been there. The question now is: could they possibly finally be beginning, with the impending construction of the stadium, and rebounding successful young team, to view the team as a true investment? If so, the money for Price and others is easily there.
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This has been my point all along - and I think if you listen really closely to Wren, JS, and McGuirk when they (rarely) discuss finances and payroll decisions, they're all pretty consistent in their answers...it's not "can they?", it's "will they?" or "should they?". They've all said that Liberty has put payroll decisions in their hands and trusts them to make the decisions. They don't have a blank check, but do have the authority to increase payroll IF they feel justified in doing so.
 
clvclv said:
This has been my point all along - and I think if you listen really closely to Wren, JS, and McGuirk when they (rarely) discuss finances and payroll decisions, they're all pretty consistent in their answers...it's not "can they?", it's "will they?" or "should they?". They've all said that Liberty has put payroll decisions in their hands and trusts them to make the decisions. They don't have a blank check, but do have the authority to increase payroll IF they feel justified in doing so.
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And they have repeatedly stated that Liberty takes no money FROM the Braves revenues. People just dont understand just how SMALL the Braves are in the overall picture for Liberty.
 
Hawk, would you trade Wood/CB/Peraza/Sims with no window to sign Price?

There is no way you trade that for 2 years of Price, none at all.
 
I agree that I think the team is in an upswing. We will have more money going into the new stadium and their wanting to use it wisely. Letting Hudson and Mac go sucks but it's not bc we couldn't keep them. It's bc they wanted to much money and we have better options. Wren hasn't spent money very wisely since being here so he's on a short leash there. Him resigning our own guys will prove what he's made of going into the new stadium.
 
When factoring a trade for Price dont forget that the Braves would be paying him around 30 million for those 2 years they have him. So that would be Wood/CB/Peraza/Simms + 30 million over 2 years for David Price and a top 40 draft pick in the 2016 draft.
 
Heyward said:
Hawk, would you trade Wood/CB/Peraza/Sims with no window to sign Price?

There is no way you trade that for 2 years of Price, none at all.
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Sure you do, if you are trying to put together the best team and win with the narrow window you have.

Wood, Sims, and CB are very nice pieces. But the aren't the final piece to push us over the edge as a World Series caliber team (at least in the short term). Unless payroll increases significantly, you can say goodbye to at least 2 of J-Up, Heyward, Kimbrell, and Freeman over the next 3 yrs. When that happens, our chances of winning a WS diminish exponentially and Wood, Sims, CB aren't going to change that.
 
Carp said:
Sure you do, if you are trying to put together the best team and win with the narrow window you have.

Wood, Sims, and CB are very nice pieces. But the aren't the final piece to push us over the edge as a World Series caliber team (at least in the short term). Unless payroll increases significantly, you can say goodbye to at least 2 of J-Up, Heyward, Kimbrell, and Freeman over the next 3 yrs. When that happens, our chances of winning a WS diminish exponentially and Wood, Sims, CB aren't going to change that.
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Let me ask this. What are the odds of us winning the WS with the current team? And what would the odds be of winning it if we traded Wood/Sims/Peraza/Bethancourt for Price?
 
nsacpi said:
Let me ask this. What are the odds of us winning the WS with the current team? And what would the odds be of winning it if we traded Wood/Sims/Peraza/Bethancourt for Price?
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I'd say 10% and 11%

Probelm with trading CB is Gattis is gonna get hurt, I'd bank on it, and he'll be important when Gattis goes down. As will Sims potentially if we have issues with our 5th rotation spot.

Personally I don't make any trades involving several top prospects because all our top prospects are either MLB ready or nearly MLB ready. So trading them hurts our depth. I'm really fine going into battle with what we have already. I would like the money we'd consider using on Price to get someone for 3B depth as I don't love it now. I would like someone like Justin Turner. I'm not willing to hitch all my eggs to the Ramiro Pena wagon. He was very good for us last year, but after being average to very bad for the Yankees. His defense brings a lot of value, but defense at 3B is not that important. I see Pena as SS/2B backup. I'd like someone who can hit at least league average.

I would also sign a few arms to minor league deals or cheap deals. There's a bunch of Free Agents (I'm using ESPN, if they haven't updated don't shoot me) that I would offer 1/1.5 type of deals to. EOF (would pay more as well), Farnsworth, I'd sign Marmol to a 1/1.5 with 2 team options for decent amounts to see if Roger can't pull a miracle and teach him control, Tommy Hanson (for the pen) Roy Oswalt, Andres Torres (would much rather have him than Schafer) and Lance Berkman.

Some interesting guys out there we could let compete with spots with some of our less awesome players or have in AAA as depth for injuries. I'd rather sure up our depth than break apart our team and go for a run. I can't recall off the top of my head a team that traded the farm for a player and then won the World Series.
 
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