DOGE

nsacpi said:
Libertarianism or some of the ideology espoused in the name of libertarianism has contributed to a lot of deaths over the years and especially during the pandemic.
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Indeed. Those libertarians that kept people from seeing their doctor to get health screenings, welded them inside their homes, arrested them for exercising outside, etc
 
eh

i might add that beyond the pandemic the laissez faire ideological stance re issues such as environmental protection, worker safety and public health have also contributed to many avoidable deaths

it is what it is

fortunately, this ideological stance against collective action has generally not prevailed, allowing sensible policies involving collective action to achieve many desirable outcomes...examples include fluoride in the water and school vaccination mandates and intervention that phased out the chemicals that were causing the hole in the ozone layer
 
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the welfare state even with all of its imperfections is one of the greatest advances in the 20th century, greatly reducing poverty and reducing some of the inequities generated by unfettered capitalism

libertarians would do well to reflect on what kind of a world we would have if their ideology had won out
 
chop2chip said:
Since when is it presupposed that welfare wouldn’t exist in a libertarian society?
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you tell me

i assume people like Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand represent the views of most libertarians on such issues...Friedman has been fairly specific about what the role of the state should be. I don't see income redistribution on the list. Both Friedman and Rand (and their apostles) have been strongly opposed to redistributive welfare
 
In an extremist sense, sure. Maybe state administered welfare would be greatly diminished.
That’s not the same as welfare not existing.
 
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Hopefully someone like Justin Amash becomes president some day so we can find out what libertarian-lite looks like.

I am curious if there has been anyone anywhere in recent times who libertarians would point out as having carried out policies that match their ideology.
 
Amash's favorite book (from how often he approvingly quotes from it) is The Road to Serfdom. The entire premise of the book is government involvement in the economy (including attempts at redistribution) is a slippery slope to tyranny and serfdom. Maybe we should take people (including Libertarians) at their word when they discuss their beliefs.
 
nsacpi said:
Amash's favorite book (from how often he approvingly quotes from it) is The Road to Serfdom. The entire premise of the book is government involvement in the economy (including attempts at redistribution) is a slippery slope to tyranny and serfdom. Maybe we should take people (including Libertarians) at their word when they discuss their beliefs.
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Prescient. We have a tyrant who uses the power of the purse to threaten universities, states and companies who don’t flatter him.
 
chop2chip said:
Prescient. We have a tyrant who uses the power of the purse to threaten universities, states and companies who don’t flatter him.
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Yes! Trump is the logical end result of the expansion of the welfare state. If that had not happened we would never have elected such a tyrant! Someone better warn Sweden! And Finland! and Denmark!
 
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