Freeman to the DL a strong possibility per Bowman.

[yeezus]

Revisionist history is FUN!

thethe:
You only trade Heyward after making MULTIPLE attempts to resign him. 20 million a year is not a lot in the current state of major league baseball, especially for a player like Jason.

(2014) Man, if BJ can just be league average this team is going to win 96 games again.

Yeezus:

Heyward would get more on the open market than Choo did.

But Jason, JUp, BJ, Simmons, Freddie, Teheran, Minor, Wood is a lot of potential. I don't think there are that many teams with that kind of upside. I think the Nats are one, though. I feel our talent gets a little underrated by some around here.

If just a few things break our way, we have the talent to be a dominant team.

At the time, that's totally correct about Heyward. It may still be correct - he may get that money on the open market. That doesn't mean I have to agree with doing it at the present time. Knowing what we now know, I'm not on board with giving Heyward $20+ mil. If he hits well this year, I'll change my mind. Right now, no. I spoke highly of Heyward for a long time, and I still believe in his potential. At some point he has to take a permanent step offensively. In retrospect, that deal was the right move to make (and I hated it at the time).

It's quite a bit different than the Shelby situation, as you were using his then current, 2013 stats to show why he was an ace, but when his stats are better across the board this year (other than k/9), all you do is talk about how he's bound to regress and isn't an ace. He's improved since your ace designation, but he's a Brave, therefore no longer in the convo.

 

[yeezus]

And I think once the results came in on that group, it wasn't good. Clearly I was wrong about BJ, he fell off a cliff.

Point is, Shelby has gotten better, yet you won't even discuss him being an ace because of XYZ. But back then, he was no doubt an ace in your mind.

 

[yeezus]

And for the record, I do not consider Shelby an ace.

 

[NinersSBChamps]

And for the record, I do not consider Shelby an ace.

He not an ace in major league circles, but he's the ace of our staff. But if you are making a rotation of pitchers around baseball, he's probably somewhere between the fourth and fifth set of pitchers. Meaning 20-25 overall

 

[jpx7]

in hindsight, i don't think that team had a shot at competing in the playoffs against really good pitching.

In foresight, I don't think the current team has a shot at competing in the playoffs against really good pitching.

 

[chop2chip]

And for the record, I do not consider Shelby an ace.

He's really damn close. I would be surprised if his strikeout rate doesn't bump up eventually. That's really the only thing that can be held against him.

 

[Heyward]

In foresight, I don't think the current team has a shot at competing in the playoffs against really good pitching.

No crap, who brought up this years team?

Pretty obvious we need a couple more bats before we can do better vs elite pitching.

 

[Heyward]

I don't know: 2013 felt pretty damn great.

Not to me, that team was too flawed to beat elite pitching.

 

[thewupk]

Not to me, that team was too flawed to beat elite pitching.

I bet I can find many games over the course of the 2014 season where we beat elite pitching. Don't make blanket statments like that. We beat Greinke in that very series. Anything can happen in the playoffs. Great hitting teams can go cold. Elite pitching can crap the bed. There are no gurantees. Which why when things are said "we can't beat elite pitching. no way we can win" I just shake my head and laugh because that's so not true and has been proven constantly over the course of baseball history. There is no perfect forumla to winning in the playoffs. The only thing constant is saying the way to win is by using last years winner as the blueprint.

 

[Heyward]

I did, when?

You said it was stupid he wasnt in their playoff rotation in 2013, im not sure you called him an ace.

Said he was better than Julio at that time as well i believe.

 

[gilesfan]

You said it was stupid he wasnt in their playoff rotation in 2013, im not sure you called him an ace.

Said he was better than Julio at that time as well i believe.

I believe Miller is better than Julio; still do.

I also would start Miller over Lance Lynn anyday of the week.

 

[Heyward]

I bet I can find many games over the course of the 2014 season where we beat elite pitching. Don't make blanket statments like that. We beat Greinke in that very series. Anything can happen in the playoffs. Great hitting teams can go cold. Elite pitching can crap the bed. There are no gurantees. Which why when things are said "we can't beat elite pitching. no way we can win" I just shake my head and laugh because that's so not true and has been proven constantly over the course of baseball history. There is no perfect forumla to winning in the playoffs. The only thing constant is saying the way to win is by using last years winner as the blueprint.

We scored 2 off Greinke, didnt really do much vs Kershaw.

Had a good offensive game vs Ryu.

But all in all, the offense, SP, bullpen let us down that series.

Medlen sucked, Julio sucked, Garcia and Minor were good.

 

[chop2chip]

I don't understand why people are surprised when elite pitching pitches well in general.

They are, you know, elite pitchers for a reason. Kershaw will shutout all manner of lineups.

 

[chop2chip]

I believe Miller is better than Julio; still do.

I also would start Miller over Lance Lynn anyday of the week.

Lance Lynn... The man with a career 3.20 FIP who pitches better every year.

I don't feel like that claim adds any credibility to your point.

 

[Heyward]

Revisionist history is FUN!

thethe:

You only trade Heyward after making MULTIPLE attempts to resign him. 20 million a year is not a lot in the current state of major league baseball, especially for a player like Jason.

(2014) Man, if BJ can just be league average this team is going to win 96 games again.

Yeezus:



Heyward would get more on the open market than Choo did.

But Jason, JUp, BJ, Simmons, Freddie, Teheran, Minor, Wood is a lot of potential. I don't think there are that many teams with that kind of upside. I think the Nats are one, though. I feel our talent gets a little underrated by some around here.

If just a few things break our way, we have the talent to be a dominant team.

At that current time, 2012 or 2013, it was.

He was actually hitting well, hitting to all fields, and had his power stroke then (hit 27 bombs in 2012), and had a good year in 2013.

After he got hit in the jaw, it seems he hasnt hit for power much, maybe he finds it in the 2nd half.

But if his offense doesnt improve, it doesnt make sense to give him 20+ mil a year despite him being elite defensively.

 

[Heyward]

I believe Miller is better than Julio; still do.

I also would start Miller over Lance Lynn anyday of the week.

Lynn is as solid as it gets, a very good #3 type who can pitch like an ace on any night.

He's pretty underrated.

 

[Heyward]

I don't understand why people are surprised when elite pitching pitches well in general.

They are, you know, elite pitchers for a reason. Kershaw will shutout all manner of lineups.

Regardless of that, i dont think the 2013/2014 teams were set up well to beat elite pitching or at least make them work, too many K's/easy outs.

 

[thewupk]

We scored 2 off Greinke, didnt really do much vs Kershaw.

Had a good offensive game vs Ryu.

But all in all, the offense, SP, bullpen let us down that series.

Medlen sucked, Julio sucked, Garcia and Minor were good.

We gave up a crap ton of runs. I would say our pitching was more of a problem then our offense that series.

 

[gilesfan]

Lance Lynn... The man with a career 3.20 FIP who pitches better every year.

I don't feel like that claim adds any credibility to your point.

I've never like Lynn for whatever reason and his numbers are surely getting better so I am likely way off base on him. Im not sure what point I'm trying to make, just saying I thought they should start Miller over Lynn in 13 and feel like Miller is a better pitcher than him.

FWIW, I still can't get the gopher ball he served up Jayson Werth in game 4 of the 2013 playoffs out of my head. I just can't understand how he gets it done.

 

[chop2chip]

Regardless of that, i dont think the 2013/2014 teams were set up well to beat elite pitching or at least make them work, too many K's/easy outs.

We beat pitching 96 times that year. The only part of baseball that changes in the playoffs is no more #5 starters and starters get pulled sooner for the bullpen. An elite pitchers fastball doesn't gain 5 mph and their curveballs don't have sharper break.