GDT 6/12/23: Braves @ Tigers - Mort on the mound

CyYoung31 said:
There’s plenty of blame to go around. Some of it was luck, some of it was performance, and some of was Snitker not putting his team in the best position to win the game.
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I wonder if Culberson is a viable 3rd base defensive sub late in games. Riley is also a negative defender and should have a defensive sub on the team. not sure who that is, but someone has to be better than Riley on defense already on the team.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
yeah.. I am fine with Riggy starting the inning.. the single to start was close to 100 ev.. the homer was blasted.. Riggy's command was suspect and the single to right was blasted.. bloops happen.. but as soon as he started getting in trouble, you get Minter and Chanvez or any other Righty in the pen up and see if you can save the game before you go to extras.. You can send Murphy out to talk to him to stall.. then Kranny can go out before you yank him to have your arms ready.

the second point is having Rasorrio, who is a negative defender by a good margin, anywhere near left field. He should have been sitting on the bench thinking how awesome he is versus playing left thinking how awesome he is. That is a managers basic duties.. to put the team in the best case to win every night.. Twit never rests anyone, he manages by color by number coloring book, and thinks sabermetrics is the length of a sword. I am sorry if you think it is ok to excuse Twit for "this is baseball" for the horrible managing decisions.. but I won't.. Not to mention he is a national embarrassment with every post game interview and his 37 'really good' he has to say... or his 'it happens, and it will happen again'.. yeah with you never learning a damn thing, it will happen again, you stupid buffon..
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Yeah, Iggy didn't look good. Didn't locate and had a lot of pitches that hung.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
yeah.. I am fine with Riggy starting the inning.. the single to start was close to 100 ev.. the homer was blasted.. Riggy's command was suspect and the single to right was blasted.. bloops happen.. but as soon as he started getting in trouble, you get Minter and Chanvez or any other Righty in the pen up and see if you can save the game before you go to extras.. You can send Murphy out to talk to him to stall.. then Kranny can go out before you yank him to have your arms ready.

the second point is having Rasorrio, who is a negative defender by a good margin, anywhere near left field. He should have been sitting on the bench thinking how awesome he is versus playing left thinking how awesome he is. That is a managers basic duties.. to put the team in the best case to win every night.. Twit never rests anyone, he manages by color by number coloring book, and thinks sabermetrics is the length of a sword. I am sorry if you think it is ok to excuse Twit for "this is baseball" for the horrible managing decisions.. but I won't.. Not to mention he is a national embarrassment with every post game interview and his 37 'really good' he has to say... or his 'it happens, and it will happen again'.. yeah with you never learning a damn thing, it will happen again, you stupid buffon..
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Getting Minter up would have been a real managing miracle considering he'd already pitched.

The only place you could have reasonably pulled Iglesias was after the single to Vierling. There's no way you get anyone warming up before the HR. If you get someone warming up after the HR, he'd be warming up while Iglesias gave up a silly 72 MPH single, struck out a batter, then got an 83 MPH force out. You don't pull Iglesias at that point. He's your closer, he seems to have settled in a little bit, you let him pitch. After that he gives up a bullet single to Vierling. That's the soonest you can reasonably expect to pull him.

After Vierling, Short hits a 90 MPH single which Rosario butchers then Iglesias gets a K to end the inning. Iglesias' pitching after the earliest point you could have pulled him wasn't bad. He gave up a BABIP single and K'd a batter. There's no reason to believe anyone in the pen would have fared better. So sticking with Iglesias wasn't the clearly wrong decision you seem to think it was.

As for pulling Rosario, in hindsight it might have helped to have had a better defensive LFer out there. But I'm not going to crucify Snit too much for that. Suppose Hilliard doesn't get to the ball either and the game is tied. Hilliard then comes up in the 10th and K's. People would be complaining for Snit pulling Rosario when he was due up the next half inning if the Tigers tied it. In hindsight he should have put in Hilliard but keeping Rosario out there was hardly as bad of a call as you want to make it out to be.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
I wonder if Culberson is a viable 3rd base defensive sub late in games. Riley is also a negative defender and should have a defensive sub on the team. not sure who that is, but someone has to be better than Riley on defense already on the team.
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Jace Peterson is a retread, but I wonder if he'd be someone that would make sense. Given the A's pattern of trading with the Braves, we could probably get Peterson for our worst-rated player on the Dominican Summer League roster. Just a thought. Peterson can play at 2B, 3B, and LF, but only a plus fielder over his career at 3B. LH bat with some pop.
 
striker42 said:
Getting Minter up would have been a real managing miracle considering he'd already pitched.

The only place you could have reasonably pulled Iglesias was after the single to Vierling. There's no way you get anyone warming up before the HR. If you get someone warming up after the HR, he'd be warming up while Iglesias gave up a silly 72 MPH single, struck out a batter, then got an 83 MPH force out. You don't pull Iglesias at that point. He's your closer, he seems to have settled in a little bit, you let him pitch. After that he gives up a bullet single to Vierling. That's the soonest you can reasonably expect to pull him.

After Vierling, Short hits a 90 MPH single which Rosario butchers then Iglesias gets a K to end the inning. Iglesias' pitching after the earliest point you could have pulled him wasn't bad. He gave up a BABIP single and K'd a batter. There's no reason to believe anyone in the pen would have fared better. So sticking with Iglesias wasn't the clearly wrong decision you seem to think it was.

As for pulling Rosario, in hindsight it might have helped to have had a better defensive LFer out there. But I'm not going to crucify Snit too much for that. Suppose Hilliard doesn't get to the ball either and the game is tied. Hilliard then comes up in the 10th and K's. People would be complaining for Snit pulling Rosario when he was due up the next half inning if the Tigers tied it. In hindsight he should have put in Hilliard but keeping Rosario out there was hardly as bad of a call as you want to make it out to be.
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The new extra inning rules are a work-in-progress, but is Hilliard that much faster than d'Arnaud? With these short benches, I wonder if they used a bullet there before they had to. Of course, the game went south in the ninth and having Rosario out there with a lead didn't make a ton of sense.
 
50PoundHead said:
The new extra inning rules are a work-in-progress, but is Hilliard that much faster than d'Arnaud? With these short benches, I wonder if they used a bullet there before they had to. Of course, the game went south in the ninth and having Rosario out there with a lead didn't make a ton of sense.
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Yes... Hilliard is quite fast and much faster than TDA... his sprint speed this year is in the 92nd percentile and TDA's sprint speed is in the 21st percentile according to statcast
 
If the thought process is that I’ve already used 4 relievers, extra innings looks likely and I don’t want to abuse my bullpen, so I’m going to ride or die with Iglesias, that’s a logical decision I can understand. The problem with that is that you’re sacrificing your best reliever for potentially the rest of the series seeing what his pitch count was already at. That on top of likely punting the game because Iglesias clearly doesn’t have it. I mean, it’s the Tigers, so not having your closer for two games shouldn’t matter much, but still.
 
zbhargrove said:
Yes... Hilliard is quite fast and much faster than TDA... his sprint speed this year is in the 92nd percentile and TDA's sprint speed is in the 21st percentile according to statcast
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Thanks. I figured he was maybe a step faster than d'Arnaud, but that's more than a step.
 
CyYoung31 said:
If the thought process is that I’ve already used 4 relievers, extra innings looks likely and I don’t want to abuse my bullpen, so I’m going to ride or die with Iglesias, that’s a logical decision I can understand. The problem with that is that you’re sacrificing your best reliever for potentially the rest of the series seeing what his pitch count was already at. That on top of likely punting the game because Iglesias clearly doesn’t have it. I mean, it’s the Tigers, so not having your closer for two games shouldn’t matter much, but still.
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Snitker is setting it up for Tonkin's first career save.
 
striker42 said:
Getting Minter up would have been a real managing miracle considering he'd already pitched.

The only place you could have reasonably pulled Iglesias was after the single to Vierling. There's no way you get anyone warming up before the HR. If you get someone warming up after the HR, he'd be warming up while Iglesias gave up a silly 72 MPH single, struck out a batter, then got an 83 MPH force out. You don't pull Iglesias at that point. He's your closer, he seems to have settled in a little bit, you let him pitch. After that he gives up a bullet single to Vierling. That's the soonest you can reasonably expect to pull him.

After Vierling, Short hits a 90 MPH single which Rosario butchers then Iglesias gets a K to end the inning. Iglesias' pitching after the earliest point you could have pulled him wasn't bad. He gave up a BABIP single and K'd a batter. There's no reason to believe anyone in the pen would have fared better. So sticking with Iglesias wasn't the clearly wrong decision you seem to think it was.

As for pulling Rosario, in hindsight it might have helped to have had a better defensive LFer out there. But I'm not going to crucify Snit too much for that. Suppose Hilliard doesn't get to the ball either and the game is tied. Hilliard then comes up in the 10th and K's. People would be complaining for Snit pulling Rosario when he was due up the next half inning if the Tigers tied it. In hindsight he should have put in Hilliard but keeping Rosario out there was hardly as bad of a call as you want to make it out to be.
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant …..

But very good - and well reasoned- points all around, as usual.

And Arcia got a hit and kept his average at .323… so there’s that bit of a silver lining …. :)
 
striker42 said:
Getting Minter up would have been a real managing miracle considering he'd already pitched.

The only place you could have reasonably pulled Iglesias was after the single to Vierling. There's no way you get anyone warming up before the HR. If you get someone warming up after the HR, he'd be warming up while Iglesias gave up a silly 72 MPH single, struck out a batter, then got an 83 MPH force out. You don't pull Iglesias at that point. He's your closer, he seems to have settled in a little bit, you let him pitch. After that he gives up a bullet single to Vierling. That's the soonest you can reasonably expect to pull him.

After Vierling, Short hits a 90 MPH single which Rosario butchers then Iglesias gets a K to end the inning. Iglesias' pitching after the earliest point you could have pulled him wasn't bad. He gave up a BABIP single and K'd a batter. There's no reason to believe anyone in the pen would have fared better. So sticking with Iglesias wasn't the clearly wrong decision you seem to think it was.

As for pulling Rosario, in hindsight it might have helped to have had a better defensive LFer out there. But I'm not going to crucify Snit too much for that. Suppose Hilliard doesn't get to the ball either and the game is tied. Hilliard then comes up in the 10th and K's. People would be complaining for Snit pulling Rosario when he was due up the next half inning if the Tigers tied it. In hindsight he should have put in Hilliard but keeping Rosario out there was hardly as bad of a call as you want to make it out to be.
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I completely missed Minters inning so I ddin't realize he pitched.. which begs to another fault of Twitner.. not letting guys pitch across multiple innings.. instead he has to follow some script of minter 7th, Anderson 8th and Riggy 9th as if no situation could ever change that.. Whatever makes him think the less I guess.. But regardless, I would have someone up right after the homer.. yes.. I think once he hit 20ish pitches, I am probably pulling him, which should have been about the time it was still 5-4. I mean I get Riggy is better than every other guy in the pen, but sometimes you just know when a guy doesn't have his best stuff. striking out Baez is not a monumental feat.

As far as Hilliard not catching it either and then him having to hit..versus RaSorrio's first pitch weak fly.. I would not fault him for making the right decision and it back firing. others might, but I have made previous comments commending him when he makes the right move. I mean putting Hilliard/Pilar in LF with a 4 run lead (8th inning) is about the easiest decision he could have made this week.. probably easier than what dress he wanted to wear on the next cold night.
 
I’m actually all for sitting Murphy often. I want him nice and fresh come October. I hate going into the playoffs worn out - and when a catcher is a major source of your offense, having him in good health in the fall becomes critical.
 
Hulavol said:
I’m actually all for sitting Murphy often. I want him nice and fresh come October. I hate going into the playoffs worn out - and when a catcher is a major source of your offense, having him in good health in the fall becomes critical.
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Great, Murph and TDA will be fresh.. Olson, Riley, Arcia, Ozzie, Acuan, and MH2 will all be worn down or injured. Lets see how that plays out cotton.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Great, Murph and TDA will be fresh.. Olson, Riley, Arcia, Ozzie, Acuan, and MH2 will all be worn down or injured. Lets see how that plays out cotton.
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Catcher is a much more demanding than other positions. We're going to have to rest Murphy and TDA more than other players just to keep them on the same level of fatigue.
 
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